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Nature Clerics vs. Druids?
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8111249" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Elemental and nature spirits are Primal. You are literally saying that Primal is a stupid power source, they could just draw their power from nature (ie exactly what the primal power source is)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Obviously you do care. I mentioned I liked the inclusion of Primal as a power source. I didn't even say "all druids are primal casters by the iron laws of canon" or anything like that. I said I liked it, because it solves a problem I had. </p><p></p><p>And you hate it, and won't stop telling me you hate it, and that it is stupid, and needs to disappear because.... reasons? </p><p></p><p>Sure, Godless clerics are a thing. They are also the exception to the rule, much like a Veggie Burger. They exist, some people use them, but if I ask for a burger, I'm likely asking for a ground beef patty. That is the norm, the standard.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>See, I prefer 4e's take on that. Sure, in 2e you had clerics powered by the Elemental forces, but, that was also the edition where Druids were a "kit" of Clerics (If I have my editions correct) so they had to allow some clerics in 2e, because Druids made too much sense in a story about the destructiion of the environment. </p><p></p><p>But by 4e, Druids and Clerics were distinct enough, and the place of "we need a healer" was covered well enough, there was no reason to keep Clerics at all for Athas. Well, except tradition, but that is a poor reason by itself. </p><p></p><p>And since they had defined "Primal" as being separate from Divine, and "Elemental Forces" were clearly Primal Sources, it made more thematic sense to cut off Divine and rely on the other sources, than to somehow start rewriting things within 4e. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But beyond all that... you have not made a single concise point this entire time. You have declared it is stupid, because Druids could be powered by anything, and it doesn't matter, because it could be anything, but primal was definetly stupid... and it all seems to come back to a dislike of 4e on general principles. Which, that's fair man, I'm not here to tell you you have to like 4e. You can go on hating it as much as you want, but I have often found that 4e had some nuggets of brilliance in the design. There were rules and aspects of it that were very useful and deserve to be preserved. And hating things because you hate them, and that's it, doesn't give you a chance to listen to why it might have been a decent idea. </p><p></p><p>Primal is literally just taking the idea of magic based on elemental forces, nature spirits, fey, totems, ect, and giving it a name. It is not the same type of power as the power of a God or a Church, it is not the same as a wizard studying in his tower. Maybe you don't like the name, but for me, putting those things in their own group, by pointing out a path I could take and design around, it improved my game and my thinking about magic. </p><p></p><p>Even if you think it is stupid.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8111249, member: 6801228"] Elemental and nature spirits are Primal. You are literally saying that Primal is a stupid power source, they could just draw their power from nature (ie exactly what the primal power source is) Obviously you do care. I mentioned I liked the inclusion of Primal as a power source. I didn't even say "all druids are primal casters by the iron laws of canon" or anything like that. I said I liked it, because it solves a problem I had. And you hate it, and won't stop telling me you hate it, and that it is stupid, and needs to disappear because.... reasons? Sure, Godless clerics are a thing. They are also the exception to the rule, much like a Veggie Burger. They exist, some people use them, but if I ask for a burger, I'm likely asking for a ground beef patty. That is the norm, the standard. See, I prefer 4e's take on that. Sure, in 2e you had clerics powered by the Elemental forces, but, that was also the edition where Druids were a "kit" of Clerics (If I have my editions correct) so they had to allow some clerics in 2e, because Druids made too much sense in a story about the destructiion of the environment. But by 4e, Druids and Clerics were distinct enough, and the place of "we need a healer" was covered well enough, there was no reason to keep Clerics at all for Athas. Well, except tradition, but that is a poor reason by itself. And since they had defined "Primal" as being separate from Divine, and "Elemental Forces" were clearly Primal Sources, it made more thematic sense to cut off Divine and rely on the other sources, than to somehow start rewriting things within 4e. But beyond all that... you have not made a single concise point this entire time. You have declared it is stupid, because Druids could be powered by anything, and it doesn't matter, because it could be anything, but primal was definetly stupid... and it all seems to come back to a dislike of 4e on general principles. Which, that's fair man, I'm not here to tell you you have to like 4e. You can go on hating it as much as you want, but I have often found that 4e had some nuggets of brilliance in the design. There were rules and aspects of it that were very useful and deserve to be preserved. And hating things because you hate them, and that's it, doesn't give you a chance to listen to why it might have been a decent idea. Primal is literally just taking the idea of magic based on elemental forces, nature spirits, fey, totems, ect, and giving it a name. It is not the same type of power as the power of a God or a Church, it is not the same as a wizard studying in his tower. Maybe you don't like the name, but for me, putting those things in their own group, by pointing out a path I could take and design around, it improved my game and my thinking about magic. Even if you think it is stupid. [/QUOTE]
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