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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8111501" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>Um...what about the Tempest Technique Fighter? That's literally a dual-wielding Fighter from 4e. (Martial Power, published Nov 2008.) No need to invent a whole new class. Just a new baseline feature (replacing Fighter Weapon Talent feature), a couple new at-wills, and an extra power or two for those levels that get some. It's not <em>that</em> big a deal.</p><p></p><p>Like, I get your point here, designing classes in 4e is far from trivial. But you really could've picked several other examples, and not done so in a way that implies you don't actually know what you're talking about. (Edit: And, it's worth noting? You could totally still <em>be</em> a dual-wielding Fighter even before MP was published, you just didn't get anything <em>special</em> for being one. Tempest Technique made it so there were <em>bonuses</em> for dual-wielding, it didn't make it <em>possible</em> to dual-wield because <em>anyone can choose to dual-wield</em>.)</p><p></p><p>A much better example would have been, say, a Ranger who uses a shield. I'm pretty sure 4e never actually gave any bonuses for Rangers who use shields--not anything that wasn't generically available, I mean--and they weren't automatically proficient with them, either. So you'd have to spend multiple feats to get basic shield stuff. You could still do it because, as stated, your role does not tell you what you <em>can't</em> do. You just wouldn't do anything special with a shield other than, y'know, having some extra AC and Reflex defense.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Dark Sun is, quite literally, <em>the best</em> evidence for why power sources can have value, and the fact that you see it as "moronic" (without <em>any</em> justification, just a bald assertion) is ample demonstration that you have no interest in actually debating any merits, exactly as I and Chaosmancer have said.</p><p></p><p></p><p>It does not "just make things harder." You keep baldly asserting these things with <em>zero</em> justification. You're not interested in discussion, so neither am I.</p><p></p><p></p><p>It legitimately does not make class design any easier. It <em>may</em> remove certain obstacles, but it definitely adds others. That's the whole point of my argment, which you soundly ignored to continue your crusade.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8111501, member: 6790260"] Um...what about the Tempest Technique Fighter? That's literally a dual-wielding Fighter from 4e. (Martial Power, published Nov 2008.) No need to invent a whole new class. Just a new baseline feature (replacing Fighter Weapon Talent feature), a couple new at-wills, and an extra power or two for those levels that get some. It's not [I]that[/I] big a deal. Like, I get your point here, designing classes in 4e is far from trivial. But you really could've picked several other examples, and not done so in a way that implies you don't actually know what you're talking about. (Edit: And, it's worth noting? You could totally still [I]be[/I] a dual-wielding Fighter even before MP was published, you just didn't get anything [I]special[/I] for being one. Tempest Technique made it so there were [I]bonuses[/I] for dual-wielding, it didn't make it [I]possible[/I] to dual-wield because [I]anyone can choose to dual-wield[/I].) A much better example would have been, say, a Ranger who uses a shield. I'm pretty sure 4e never actually gave any bonuses for Rangers who use shields--not anything that wasn't generically available, I mean--and they weren't automatically proficient with them, either. So you'd have to spend multiple feats to get basic shield stuff. You could still do it because, as stated, your role does not tell you what you [I]can't[/I] do. You just wouldn't do anything special with a shield other than, y'know, having some extra AC and Reflex defense. Dark Sun is, quite literally, [I]the best[/I] evidence for why power sources can have value, and the fact that you see it as "moronic" (without [I]any[/I] justification, just a bald assertion) is ample demonstration that you have no interest in actually debating any merits, exactly as I and Chaosmancer have said. It does not "just make things harder." You keep baldly asserting these things with [I]zero[/I] justification. You're not interested in discussion, so neither am I. It legitimately does not make class design any easier. It [I]may[/I] remove certain obstacles, but it definitely adds others. That's the whole point of my argment, which you soundly ignored to continue your crusade. [/QUOTE]
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