Naval Warfare

[Infiniti2000]

Do you have any recommendations for naval warfare rules? We've looked at Stormwrack and the Mongoose books (Seas of Blood and one or two others), but they seem be lacking with respect to the interaction of high-level PCs. Granted, it's asking a lot to have a good ruleset for (relatively) simplified naval combat and take into account the actions of high-level PCs, but it can't hurt to try. We might end up developing our own based on the still-useful information in those sources.

 

[Infiniti2000]

*bump*

 

[kigmatzomat]

Sorry. My one significant foray into naval combat occurred prior to the resurgence in popularity of pirates so I haven't really looked at any of the supplements.

I will say that lower water, windwall, control winds, summon storm, call lightning, Summon water elemental/squid, warp wood, water walk, and Otiluke's Freezing Orb can seriously change combat tactics. Use of potions of alterself (aquatic race) and swimming should be common staples in the well-heeled pirate or navy's arsenal.

Barring cannons & magic, the common weapon should be archers with either longbows or crossbows for maximum range. Normal arrows for pirates trying to sieze cargo, fire arrows for navies or defenders trying to kill off an attacker. IMC many pirate ships are "combat carriers" that pack a number of viking-esque longboats. An oared vessel can outrun a sailing ship for a short period of time so these attack boats move into position to fire arrows, damage sails, or in some cases, drop "bolos" (floating barrels on long ropes that snag onto ships and create drag, slowing the ship down). Attack boats will also carry whatever offensive spell casters they might possess to get them into position and so that counter-magic doesn't damage the main ship.

Pirates will covet casters, though they probably have to luck out to find a divine caster of similar sentiment; kidnapping priests tends to be bad luck. Kidnapping a mage, however, is just peachy. Formal navies will often have arrangements with formal religion, though the nature of the arrangements will vary on the campaign setting.

Create food & water extends the range of shipping or increases the amount of cargo that can be carried. Ditto for any magic items that can do the same; Decanters of Endless Water can free up signficant cargo capacities. An Orb of Weather Control is one of the greatest treasures a captain can have.

 

[Plot-Device]

2 cents: Personally I recoil against the simplification of naval warfare rules. Because combat on the seas has a much higher risk factor, I want everything drawn out. When you simplify things like mass combat in to large group attack rolls and such, sometimes the PC feels worthless, and when you lose at those sort of combat, you always have rules complaints. (becuase things somtimes do get glossed over when you want to make a streamlined system).

That and it takes so long that players (I am a player right now, btw) think twice before they decide to go a-sailing.

That and five foot square rules dont lend well to the packed combat you want from combat on the deck.

 

[kigmatzomat]

I would recommend you look up texts on pre-cannon tactics like roman or greek and then the tactics at the cannon conversion. I'm sure there was some limited success at fighting off cannons while they were rare and with limited rate of fire/ammunition. I'd imagine the anti-cannon tactics are similar to anti-magic tactics.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Personally I recoil against the simplification of naval warfare rules. Because combat on the seas has a much higher risk factor, I want everything drawn out.

I'm not adverse to simplifying, or even codifying, naval combat. There's not a whole lot in the core rules. Simplifications are fine for the NPCs as long as the PCs are not forced use the altered mechanics. I generally used volley fire from NPCs and gave each volley an attack. PCs rarely take part in volleys and instead use normal aimed shots. In most cases, PCs should be the equivalent of snipers and elite warriors.

The one thing NOT to do is to change the sense of timing. Naval combat is not like aerial dogfights with rapid confrontations. It is instead a highly stressful series of brutal altercations spaced out with nerve-wracking periods where you can see your enemy but can't do anything about them. Think "trench warfare on a boat" if you must.

Morale checks should occur after every clash with a broken foe being more likely to make mistakes, waste ammunition, or try to flee. Casters with bad morale will be more prone to wasting spells or using them non-strategically.

 

[ElectricDragon]

If you've got or can get the Spelljammer boxed set from 2e, the rules in there for ship-to-ship combat can be modified to work on seas instead of outer space (wild space). Most large weaponry on a ship can easily out-range many spells and thus unless fog/mist/island concealment is available, combat by siege weapons usually starts the conflict. This system used a maneuverability stat for each ship to determine its turning capability, a speed stat, hp, and an AC (much like normal ACs in 2e, this will have to be modified). Unfortunately there are no weather rules for tacking with sails, but I believe that can be found elsewhere.

This is not the end-all of naval combat rules, just a starting place.

Ciao
Dave

 

[Infiniti2000]

Thanks for the responses, all. The DM and I have done some WWII naval wargaming, but the other players would not be interested in such drawn-out battles. We want a relatively simplified naval combat system while allowing the PC to perform some actions interspersed in there.

Unfortunately, none of the rules we've seen can handle both well. It's completely infeasible to use only simplified naval combat (because as you can see from the other thread, one blade barrier can seriously affect the overall battle). It's also infeasible to use normal combat rules. The current combat has our one ship vs. 3 hobgoblin bounty hunter ships, over 100 crew each.

If we come up with a decent system, I'll try to remember to post it--most likely in House Rules.

 

[irdeggman]

The BRCS (from the Birthright.net site) has a set of rules for mass combat. It is designed for for unit level fighting though.

There are notes in how to handle PC level things - no details though.

Basically it was a "zoom in" on the PC during the battle round and run an individual combat that is a reflection of what is going on around them.

I didn't suggest it earlier because you seemed to want something more along how Heroes of Battle handles things, basically the role of PCs on the battlefield. But it looks like you are looking for a hybrid system. I think you are going to have to pick and choose things from different systems to find what you want though. MAss combat is always hard to handle since there is traditionally a split between players who like wargame leveldetails and though they despise that kind of detail.

 

[green slime]

As high level characters can influence the battle in a way not even possible in modern warfare, it is just a matter of advocating what the high level PC's do, and running the battle from there.

Wizard: I ready to cast disintegrate at the approaching ship's hull, when it is in range.
DM: Right-o.
Fighter: I shoot arrows at extreme range, trying to take out their lookout in the crows nest.
DM: Right-o
DM: The ship approaches, firing catapult and ballistae as it approaches. *rolls die* They miss. Roll to hit the hull, Mr Wiz.
Wiz: Yep rolled 18.
DM: A dark ray blazes from your hand, and a giantic hole appears in the fore of the ship. It slips quickly underwater. You hear the cries and lamentantions of its sailors as they get plucked and eaten by the circling sharks.

The Fighter wonders why he wasted three +3 arrows, but then he was a fool not to cash them in anyway.