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<blockquote data-quote="Badwe" data-source="post: 4833422" data-attributes="member: 61762"><p>and that's all you, or anyone posting regarding a fanbase split has, an idea. Nobody has real percentages, and pretending we do is a farce. All anyone has is their own personal experience and knowledge of other players. If I were to use my own experience, I could easily say 5% because i know a total of 2 people who are 3e holdouts out of 4 groups of 5-6 players playing home groups and going to multiple events with rooms full of people playing 4e LFR from RPGA. </p><p></p><p>I know this isn't the reality, I know there is likely a higher percentage of 3e holdouts, and at least another decent percentage (of total D&D players) who are 2e or 1e holdouts. Beyond that? I can say nothing. I can't tell you the magnitude to which the 3e percentage differs from the 4e, I couldn't even tell you which was higher. No amount of linking to WSJ top seller or amazon top seller book lists is going to prove it one way or the other, so how about we stop kidding ourselves into thinking it will? Wisdom is knowing what you don't know.</p><p></p><p>Now, all that aside, necromancer definitely has an uphill battle, as do any 3pp for 4e. Even with a GSL, 4e doesn't, as others have mentioned, let the 3rd parties into the most exclusive club, moreso than even publishing books: the Character Builder and compendium. No amount of legal compliance will create a scenario in which 3rd party publishers will be able to seamlessly integrate their items/feats/powers/etc. into the character builder or make them searchable on compendium, and that is a major hit. It means people fully dedicated to the 4e model are going to be struggling to integrate anything except published adventures into their games. </p><p></p><p>In this sense, WotC has been hostile to publishers not by their GSL (though that certainly left plenty of people dissapointed) but by building a better mousetrap. Of course, it's easy to design source books that work extremely well with your core rules when you significantly overhauled and redesigned those core rules. Still, I'd hardly call that malice towards 3pp. Also, I know I as a DM have embraced it because i can get rid of that sense of dread when a player brings me a sourcebook and says "can i play this new class?" and wonder what i'm getting myself into. I would say in that way WotC almost stole a concept from GURPS (in a _much_ more limited fashion) in that you can pretty easily use every single thing published, even from different settings and have it all add up and work.</p><p></p><p>All that being said, I would love to see 3pp succeed in 4e. I would like to see a multitude of options for me to have available and for many different takes on the new rules set to emerge. But as I outlined above... even without the GSL difficulties it wouldn't be easy. Hat's off to Goodman for being the most successful 4e 3pp.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Badwe, post: 4833422, member: 61762"] and that's all you, or anyone posting regarding a fanbase split has, an idea. Nobody has real percentages, and pretending we do is a farce. All anyone has is their own personal experience and knowledge of other players. If I were to use my own experience, I could easily say 5% because i know a total of 2 people who are 3e holdouts out of 4 groups of 5-6 players playing home groups and going to multiple events with rooms full of people playing 4e LFR from RPGA. I know this isn't the reality, I know there is likely a higher percentage of 3e holdouts, and at least another decent percentage (of total D&D players) who are 2e or 1e holdouts. Beyond that? I can say nothing. I can't tell you the magnitude to which the 3e percentage differs from the 4e, I couldn't even tell you which was higher. No amount of linking to WSJ top seller or amazon top seller book lists is going to prove it one way or the other, so how about we stop kidding ourselves into thinking it will? Wisdom is knowing what you don't know. Now, all that aside, necromancer definitely has an uphill battle, as do any 3pp for 4e. Even with a GSL, 4e doesn't, as others have mentioned, let the 3rd parties into the most exclusive club, moreso than even publishing books: the Character Builder and compendium. No amount of legal compliance will create a scenario in which 3rd party publishers will be able to seamlessly integrate their items/feats/powers/etc. into the character builder or make them searchable on compendium, and that is a major hit. It means people fully dedicated to the 4e model are going to be struggling to integrate anything except published adventures into their games. In this sense, WotC has been hostile to publishers not by their GSL (though that certainly left plenty of people dissapointed) but by building a better mousetrap. Of course, it's easy to design source books that work extremely well with your core rules when you significantly overhauled and redesigned those core rules. Still, I'd hardly call that malice towards 3pp. Also, I know I as a DM have embraced it because i can get rid of that sense of dread when a player brings me a sourcebook and says "can i play this new class?" and wonder what i'm getting myself into. I would say in that way WotC almost stole a concept from GURPS (in a _much_ more limited fashion) in that you can pretty easily use every single thing published, even from different settings and have it all add up and work. All that being said, I would love to see 3pp succeed in 4e. I would like to see a multitude of options for me to have available and for many different takes on the new rules set to emerge. But as I outlined above... even without the GSL difficulties it wouldn't be easy. Hat's off to Goodman for being the most successful 4e 3pp. [/QUOTE]
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