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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Arkhandus" data-source="post: 3287207" data-attributes="member: 13966">haakon:Thanks for at least, finally, giving some detail on the situation.  Without that, you leave it pretty well vague and it seems like you're just an incapable DM, until actual facts are brought to light about the situation.You said low-level PCs, but 5th-7th level is certainly not low-level.  Once someone in the group is chucking fireballs, cure critical wounds, phantasmal killers, polymorphs, flame strikes, negative plane protections, magic circles against evil, lightning bolts, enervations, or contagions, you can no longer consider yourself low-level; you're lower-middle level at the very least, on the cusp of the big leagues, hurling spells of mass destruction and wielding magic weapons nearly as expensive as many a king's crown jewels.By that point you'd expect a party of adventurers to be at least halfway-competent and not foolish enough to leave their fragile and egomaniacal weapons of mass destruction (read: mages) sitting around unguarded and alone, and you'd expect said WMDs to show at least half the genius-level Intelligence on their character sheet by not exposing themselves overmuch to attacks.Since you've finally given some detail on the situation, I'd have to say that it was at least as much (if not primarily) player foolhardiness as it was DM laziness.  Unless you're running a simple dungeon-crawl where each PC is essentially expendable and unimportant to the story (thus no conniptions/sulking about random PC deaths), in which case just PC brashness and understandable.  But I would doubt that it's simply a dungeon-crawl, if it's a play-by-e-mail or play-by-post campaign.It seems, from your bit of description now, that the PCs had no indication that there was actually a gaggle of Shadows lurking just around the corner, not merely 2?  If so, they could not have possibly expected to be assaulted by wave after wave of Shadows with no obvious end to their numbers in sight (and thus no good reason to run away or turn undead, considering now that you've revealed it to be a large group of lower-mid-level PCs).  If your melee warriors were not all equipped with +1 Ghost Touch weapons, I don't see why they rushed around to flank the Shadows rather than take Total Defense actions while remaining in a close perimeter around the spellcasters.  Then I'd expect the priests to swat about with Cure spells and the mages to unleash Magic Missiles, possibly after Mage Armoring or Shield of Faithing/Shield Othering/Protection-from-Eviling the meat shields (since those spells would apply against incorporeal touches, unlike material armor).Thus, overall likely more a matter of PC foolishness than DM laziness, but I still believe you may've erred on the side of 'not gonna do more thinking than absolutely necessary'.  Until you gave some indication of the situation's specifics, I could only assume from your earlier posts that you were just being a lazy or inattentive DM, ignoring the facts in the DMG and MM.You are the DM.  You are supreme overlord of the game-world.  You do not need to leave random batches of exceedingly-dangerous enemies lying around every other corner, just because.  Mayhap the murderous beasties have wandered off for the moment to hunt/scout/gather supplies, if nothing else.  A module is not overlord, you are.  If the PCs blunder into something completely without any foreshadowing that it may be a really dangerous spot to go right now, then you always have the option of deciding that the big nasty critter/NPC is not around at the moment, and off handling other business right now; they may've left some minions around and the big nasty may've taken their valuables with them, but the big nasty doesn't have to actually be around right now just because the module says so or earlier plans say so.  Or the area could just be warded at the time and inaccessible, even.If the PCs have no idea where they should go, in general, or what kind of dangers their current quest/journey may entail, then it is usually the fault of the DM for not providing them any clue what the heck is going on, or even just asking them if they want to make certain appropriate Knowledge check attempts regarding their current plan/goal/location/destination.If a Big Bad or war horde is in the vicinity, there should at least be some indication of such unless it's the proper time for the PCs to potentially encounter it.  Nobody has fun when the next random room in the dungeon holds Iklarazoth the Half-Fiendish Mind Flayer Psion/Pyrokineticist, and the PCs are only a band of 5 4th-level heroes.  Well, I guess the DM has fun if he's an RBDM, but that doesn't exactly incline the players to stick around and entertain the DM for any further sessions.  Assuming it's not purely dungeon-crawling, because if it is, then the whole point is to run the gauntlet; otherwise it's a campaign-ender.A bunch of Shadows, really, would probably lash out and kill one PC at a time, so I don't consider an encounter with waves of Shadows against a lower-mid-level party, that doesn't expect them, to be very fair (though I'm uncertain how they mowed down several Shadows so quickly; I imagine it has to do with the fact that the Shadows divided their attention, though I can understand going after the mage who's just Magic Missiled one or two Shadows out of existence.  Thus why I would've expected them to try Turning, while the mages buffed their AC and possibly Strength (a cleric or wizard with some ranks in Knowledge - Religion should be able to make a check and 'recall' in-character that shadows kill by draining physical strength at a touch).  I'd expect the clerics to probably attract a little more attention with their channeling of positive energy, though, and brandishing of holy symbols.Sorry, but since my first and more polite posts in the D&D Rules forum were already horribly misconstrued as being rude and inflammatory by a few posters, who subsequently insulted and harassed me for it, I'm not going to bother trying to be utterly and unmistakably nice/polite in every post.  I hardly ever bother to read or post to the D&D Rules forum, but I'm so bored lately that I somehow end up here after reading the General and House Rules forums.  If people are determined to make me out as some kinda jerk, I may as well play devil's advocate or be blunt in pointing out problems/gaps in things.  Critics still help somewhat in their own way.I'll go now.</blockquote>

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