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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6959584" data-attributes="member: 42582">Burning Wheel is not a d20 game. And it is a lot more demanding on players than D&amp;D - more gritty, failure is more common, and PCs can really suffer. But it has crunchy combat, very effective and flexible skill system, a magic system comparable to D&amp;D (though with less divination), and it supports a scene-framing style of play.PC building is via a lifepath system. PCs are defined by D&amp;D-style mechanical traits plus Beliefs, Instincts and character Traits (the first two categories player authored; the final ones are acquired initially from lifepaths, and then via a whole-of-table &quot;trait vote&quot; on a periodic basis). PCs earn fate points when Beliefs and other traits are engaged via play. The basic instruction to GMs is to (i) frame the PCs into situations that will test their Beliefs (and preferably generate internal conflict for PCs - each PC has 3 Beliefs and 3 Instincts, so they can be brought into conflict), and then (ii) twist the knife.The way I think of it is Runequest, but reconceived through a modern &quot;indie&quot; lens rather than the ultra-simulationism that informed systems like RQ, RM etc.EDIT: I see that [MENTION=99817]chaochou[/MENTION] beat me to it!And to clarify about magic: when I say it is comparable to D&amp;D, there are spells as discrete &quot;things&quot; that a wizard learns. But casting is not based on slots, nor on spell points - every spell cast requires making a CON check (at a difficulty determined by the spell's power) to see if points of CON are temporarily lost. If you lose more points than you have CON (happened to an NPC in the session I ran last weekend) you take damage instead.Having read some more of the thread, I saw that you're into investigation, intrigue and politics. BW's skill system handles all these very well.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6959584, member: 42582"] Burning Wheel is not a d20 game. And it is a lot more demanding on players than D&D - more gritty, failure is more common, and PCs can really suffer. But it has crunchy combat, very effective and flexible skill system, a magic system comparable to D&D (though with less divination), and it supports a scene-framing style of play. PC building is via a lifepath system. PCs are defined by D&D-style mechanical traits plus Beliefs, Instincts and character Traits (the first two categories player authored; the final ones are acquired initially from lifepaths, and then via a whole-of-table "trait vote" on a periodic basis). PCs earn fate points when Beliefs and other traits are engaged via play. The basic instruction to GMs is to (i) frame the PCs into situations that will test their Beliefs (and preferably generate internal conflict for PCs - each PC has 3 Beliefs and 3 Instincts, so they can be brought into conflict), and then (ii) twist the knife. The way I think of it is Runequest, but reconceived through a modern "indie" lens rather than the ultra-simulationism that informed systems like RQ, RM etc. EDIT: I see that [MENTION=99817]chaochou[/MENTION] beat me to it! And to clarify about magic: when I say it is comparable to D&D, there are spells as discrete "things" that a wizard learns. But casting is not based on slots, nor on spell points - every spell cast requires making a CON check (at a difficulty determined by the spell's power) to see if points of CON are temporarily lost. If you lose more points than you have CON (happened to an NPC in the session I ran last weekend) you take damage instead. Having read some more of the thread, I saw that you're into investigation, intrigue and politics. BW's skill system handles all these very well. [/QUOTE]

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