Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Need confirmation on number of AoOs for ranged touch spells
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Hypersmurf" data-source="post: 4735471" data-attributes="member: 1656"><p>You can't generalise a definition of what an attack is from the Invisibility description; the spell specifies that it uses an idiosyncratic definition.</p><p></p><p>"<em>For purposes of this spell</em>, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe."</p><p></p><p>The definition of 'attack' used by the Invisibility spell is different to the definition of 'attack' used by the Magic Overview section, which is different to the definition of 'attack' used by the Combat section.</p><p></p><p>The word 'attack' has many meanings.</p><p></p><p>Magic Overview says:</p><p><em>Attacks: Some spell descriptions refer to attacking. All offensive combat actions, even those that don’t damage opponents are considered attacks. Attempts to turn or rebuke undead count as attacks. All spells that opponents resist with saving throws, that deal damage, or that otherwise harm or hamper subjects are attacks. Spells that summon monsters or other allies are not attacks because the spells themselves don’t harm anyone.</em></p><p></p><p>So for the purposes of the Invisibility spell, Detect Magic cast such that the area includes a foe is an attack, and will break Invisibility. However, since it is not an offensive action, does not deal damage, harm, or hamper subjects, and is not resisted with saving throws, Detect Magic is not an attack for the purpose of other spell descriptions - it will not break a Sanctuary spell, for example.</p><p></p><p>And while the Detect Thoughts spell, which opponents resist with a saving throw, is an attack by the definition of the Magic Overview (and will thus break a Sanctuary spell), it is not an attack by the definition of the Combat chapter.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A ray is only a weaponlike spell if it a/ requires an attack roll, and b/ deals damage (in the form of hit point loss, ability damage, or negative levels).</p><p></p><p>Ray of Frost is a weaponlike spell. Ray of Exhaustion is not. However, Ray of Exhaustion requires a ranged touch attack.</p><p></p><p>If your contention is that Ray of Frost, by the rules, provokes a second AoO <em>because it is a weaponlike spell</em>, then Ray of Exhaustion does not, because it is not a weaponlike spell.</p><p></p><p>However, if we assume that Ray of Exhaustion requires making a ranged attack (even though it is not an attack with a ranged <em>weaopn</em>, like Ray of Frost might be considered to be), Ray of Exhaustion might still provoke the second AoO, under the rules in the PHB that ranged attacks provoke.</p><p></p><p>-Hyp.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hypersmurf, post: 4735471, member: 1656"] You can't generalise a definition of what an attack is from the Invisibility description; the spell specifies that it uses an idiosyncratic definition. "[i]For purposes of this spell[/i], an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe." The definition of 'attack' used by the Invisibility spell is different to the definition of 'attack' used by the Magic Overview section, which is different to the definition of 'attack' used by the Combat section. The word 'attack' has many meanings. Magic Overview says: [i]Attacks: Some spell descriptions refer to attacking. All offensive combat actions, even those that don’t damage opponents are considered attacks. Attempts to turn or rebuke undead count as attacks. All spells that opponents resist with saving throws, that deal damage, or that otherwise harm or hamper subjects are attacks. Spells that summon monsters or other allies are not attacks because the spells themselves don’t harm anyone.[/i] So for the purposes of the Invisibility spell, Detect Magic cast such that the area includes a foe is an attack, and will break Invisibility. However, since it is not an offensive action, does not deal damage, harm, or hamper subjects, and is not resisted with saving throws, Detect Magic is not an attack for the purpose of other spell descriptions - it will not break a Sanctuary spell, for example. And while the Detect Thoughts spell, which opponents resist with a saving throw, is an attack by the definition of the Magic Overview (and will thus break a Sanctuary spell), it is not an attack by the definition of the Combat chapter. A ray is only a weaponlike spell if it a/ requires an attack roll, and b/ deals damage (in the form of hit point loss, ability damage, or negative levels). Ray of Frost is a weaponlike spell. Ray of Exhaustion is not. However, Ray of Exhaustion requires a ranged touch attack. If your contention is that Ray of Frost, by the rules, provokes a second AoO [I]because it is a weaponlike spell[/I], then Ray of Exhaustion does not, because it is not a weaponlike spell. However, if we assume that Ray of Exhaustion requires making a ranged attack (even though it is not an attack with a ranged [i]weaopn[/i], like Ray of Frost might be considered to be), Ray of Exhaustion might still provoke the second AoO, under the rules in the PHB that ranged attacks provoke. -Hyp. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Need confirmation on number of AoOs for ranged touch spells
Top