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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dr. Strangemonkey" data-source="post: 419136" data-attributes="member: 6533">Re:Re: Wicked good Fantasy Actually it's more like Tolkien writing Shakespeare, though that isn't really accurate, either.My argument for George RR Martin as a combination of Shakespeare and Tolkien runs as follows:The premise for the books could be read:How much drama would there be if Shakespeare's Henriad and War of the Roses plays took place against the backdrop of a world, unbeknownst to almost all of the characters, undergoing a Tolkien style change of ages?  Plenty.The actuall writing style is more like a much juicier and action filledversion of Robert Graves "I, Claudius" and "Claudius the God" only on a chapter by chapter basis.  Every chapter proper is written from a third person perspective limited to one individual's thoughts.  The chapters are titled after the person who's perspective they follow and each chapter is followed and preceeded by a different perspective which narrates different events.In terms of the larger cannon of Fantasy Literature and why it would be helpful for a Roleplayer to read it:I would argue that this is, if not the first, than the best book to have captured the coolest stylistic elements of Tolkien without being trapped in his plot.  He is the Euripedes to Tolkien's Sophocles. <mmm, pretention>Good Tolkien Elements :  Magic: is mostly very slow, mysterious, and powerful.  People who 'cast spells' often seem to have the fewest clues about what is actually going on or to be actively misrepresenting the issues at hand.  Stories from the past: are an important part of the characters' perceptions and an important to the readers of what is actually going on.  Fighting: is dramatic, not something people do because office work hasn't been invented yet.  The World: is mysteriously changing.  There are prophecies and hints from prior information involved, but noone is really certain how it is all going to work out.Tolkine Traps Avoided :  The party does not gather together because some body finds out they or everyone around them is the chosen one and then some kindly old and powerful folk tell them exactly what they need to do when they need to do it.  People do not suddenly understand that the world is changing and that they should stop all their lives and do something about it.Good Shakespeare Stuff :  value systems are not determined: good guys exist as do bad guys, but they do not even agree among themselves on what it all means much less have good arguments for convincing everyone else that they are totally right.people have internal motivations that are often conflict with exterior realities/expectations: nuff said.  Great Intrigue: nuff said.  Complex Ethical Growth: nuff said.  Characters you cannot help but both loathe and love: nuff said.  People actually pay attention to the ethical requirements of the culture they grew up in as well try to figure out their own way and adapt to new cultures: way too much said.  Non-Wolverine style vengeance and redemption motifs: super cool.General Goodness :  so far no main character has invented their own weapon.-When someone is described as a dwarf, they have a handicap.-When something is described as a dragon, it is a singularly important sign of magical/mystical power and not a really really big, treasure hoarding, smack talking dinosaur.-If you are an unarmored peasant and a fully equipped and trained knight comes riding down at you, you are lance kabob and not an anachronistic representation of democratic forces taking on the man against all odds.-When someone is described as a knight, they could be a virtuous paragon of chivalry or they could be an arrogant oppresor of the people, but they will always be more than capable of kabobing a peasant and good enough at politics or birth to have gotten that fact recognized.-Most of the characters could, and a few have, die at any time.Why a Role-player should read it :  this book functions as a model for how you can be an epic character without being instantly caught up in the self-knowledge that you are on an epic quest.  The world described feels like a heroic and accurate medieval fantasy world without feeling like a history lesson or a romance.  Interesting takes on the problematic relationship between religion and magic.  I hope this is convincing.  The second and third books are better than the first.  I know the author of this thread has already read them, I'm just glad Canis was such an easy sell on Sean Stewart.  That would have been much harder to explain</blockquote>

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