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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Need help building a Cleric (or other spellcaster)
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<blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 4915652" data-attributes="member: 35909"><p>Anyway...do you think you'll actually level up much? You mention playing a psion before but never getting up there in rank. Because frequently lost in the hysteric levels to which people scream out "spell casters are Borken!!!1!1!" is that at the first few levels...casters really are weak and underpowered. Useful still for spells to shut down enemies for a turn and such, sure. But pretty clearly inferior to a Fighter. If your DM plans to keep the game to the first 3 levels, you'll have a hard time proving him wrong. I'd say it's a futile effort to even try. You could throw out all your spells quickly to look stronger. But then he'd probably just have you guys get attacked 3 times during the night just to "prove" you suck. Furthermore, Druid is extremely weak and hard to play until level 5-6, at least if you're building for the futur rather than the present (low str and dex since they won't matter later on). So I guess I won't even go further suggesting that.</p><p></p><p>Cleric is the most survivable of the 4 main casters thanks largely to armor proficiencies, but also might get you pressured into being a walking band-aid for the "star" fighters that did all the 733+ damage by being completely reckless and nearly dying themselves in the fight. Which will just stick you in a crushing cycle of not being able to disprove the DM.</p><p></p><p>Wizard is by far the weakest of the 4 early on. Worst HD, BAB, no armor, and not even the sorc's weapons. And unless a specialist (which, IMHO, is a "trap" in core only. Just not worth the cost) you won't really have enough spells for any adventuring day.</p><p></p><p>So, I'll work with sorcerer. Lacking bonus feats, being human is actually somewhat useful.</p><p></p><p>Level 1, umm...don't know how you're doing stats. But Charisma needs to be high. At least a 15, 16-18 if possible. But you need at least a 15. Con and dex are the next most important, in that order. Then...whatever. I'd place the important of the rest as Int-Str-Wis.</p><p></p><p>Spells: For cantrips, you want detect magic, daze, prestidigitation, and...either an attack spell (acid splash or ray of frost) or mage hand. Detect Magic is just always useful. Daze will be traded out at the first opportunity, but at early levels, it's nearly a will save or lose for humanoid enemies. It might be your main offense. Prestidigitation has hundreds of potential uses and a long duration, don't leave home without it. Mage hand is nice to kep your distance if you want. Grease isn't worth learning at level 1 since it's round/level duration, but once you do, grease + mage hand isn't half bad as a "ranged disarm" combo.</p><p>Level 1 spells: A lot of people like Sleep for level 1. I don't, and find it loses utility REALLY fast. You can only swap out so many spells as you level. Mage Armor is a solid choice, lasting an hour/lvl and giving you much needed AC. On the other hand, you can buy scrolls of it for 25 gp. Later on, a wand for 750. Color Spray is all sorts of awesome and never becomes completely useless later on. You have to get dangerously close (15 ft), but a failed will save WILL guarantee defeat for a foe or foes. Ray of Enfeeblement can severely limit a melee enemy's power and has no save. Sadly, there isn't much in the way of direct damage at level 1. Burning hands is just really weak and situational. Shocking Grasp is a decent pickup later on, since it rises in damage each level up, but at level 1 isn't worth getting close. Magic Missile is solid, reliable damage. But I find it kind of boring. Oh well. Nothing quite like readying to magic missile a fleeing enemy to make your DM see red when he wants an NPC to escape alive. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Weapons: Go for the best of the simple weapons options: Morningstar, Longspear, and/or Light Crossbow, depending on your needs. These 3 are simply, the best simple weapons. Xbow can be pricy at level 1, so maybe use a sling, which also isn't bad, and nearly free to use.</p><p></p><p>Feats: Tough to call. If you're going to focus on blasting and ray spells, Point Blank Shot is fine (And use human bonus feat to snag Precise Shot). It will also help with weapon attacks. If you want to build for the future, consider getting a metamagic feat now, even though it won't be much use yet. Extend Spell and Empower Spell being the most useful to sorcerers. For right now...Improved Initiative is always handy. Spell Focus is good if you want to use mostly one school of magic for offense. Spell Penetration shouldn't matter at level 1, but likewise helps down the road. Eschew Materials is surprisingly useful, not the least because it basically makes it possible to cast in a grapple. By the same token, I'd value Still Spell over Silent Spell, since you can get the latter as a metamagic rod, and it is the somatic components that typically hinder spellcasting (arcane spell failure for armor; grappling). If this IS staying at level 1 and never going higher, Toughness is worth taking, but only if this is the case.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="StreamOfTheSky, post: 4915652, member: 35909"] Anyway...do you think you'll actually level up much? You mention playing a psion before but never getting up there in rank. Because frequently lost in the hysteric levels to which people scream out "spell casters are Borken!!!1!1!" is that at the first few levels...casters really are weak and underpowered. Useful still for spells to shut down enemies for a turn and such, sure. But pretty clearly inferior to a Fighter. If your DM plans to keep the game to the first 3 levels, you'll have a hard time proving him wrong. I'd say it's a futile effort to even try. You could throw out all your spells quickly to look stronger. But then he'd probably just have you guys get attacked 3 times during the night just to "prove" you suck. Furthermore, Druid is extremely weak and hard to play until level 5-6, at least if you're building for the futur rather than the present (low str and dex since they won't matter later on). So I guess I won't even go further suggesting that. Cleric is the most survivable of the 4 main casters thanks largely to armor proficiencies, but also might get you pressured into being a walking band-aid for the "star" fighters that did all the 733+ damage by being completely reckless and nearly dying themselves in the fight. Which will just stick you in a crushing cycle of not being able to disprove the DM. Wizard is by far the weakest of the 4 early on. Worst HD, BAB, no armor, and not even the sorc's weapons. And unless a specialist (which, IMHO, is a "trap" in core only. Just not worth the cost) you won't really have enough spells for any adventuring day. So, I'll work with sorcerer. Lacking bonus feats, being human is actually somewhat useful. Level 1, umm...don't know how you're doing stats. But Charisma needs to be high. At least a 15, 16-18 if possible. But you need at least a 15. Con and dex are the next most important, in that order. Then...whatever. I'd place the important of the rest as Int-Str-Wis. Spells: For cantrips, you want detect magic, daze, prestidigitation, and...either an attack spell (acid splash or ray of frost) or mage hand. Detect Magic is just always useful. Daze will be traded out at the first opportunity, but at early levels, it's nearly a will save or lose for humanoid enemies. It might be your main offense. Prestidigitation has hundreds of potential uses and a long duration, don't leave home without it. Mage hand is nice to kep your distance if you want. Grease isn't worth learning at level 1 since it's round/level duration, but once you do, grease + mage hand isn't half bad as a "ranged disarm" combo. Level 1 spells: A lot of people like Sleep for level 1. I don't, and find it loses utility REALLY fast. You can only swap out so many spells as you level. Mage Armor is a solid choice, lasting an hour/lvl and giving you much needed AC. On the other hand, you can buy scrolls of it for 25 gp. Later on, a wand for 750. Color Spray is all sorts of awesome and never becomes completely useless later on. You have to get dangerously close (15 ft), but a failed will save WILL guarantee defeat for a foe or foes. Ray of Enfeeblement can severely limit a melee enemy's power and has no save. Sadly, there isn't much in the way of direct damage at level 1. Burning hands is just really weak and situational. Shocking Grasp is a decent pickup later on, since it rises in damage each level up, but at level 1 isn't worth getting close. Magic Missile is solid, reliable damage. But I find it kind of boring. Oh well. Nothing quite like readying to magic missile a fleeing enemy to make your DM see red when he wants an NPC to escape alive. :) Weapons: Go for the best of the simple weapons options: Morningstar, Longspear, and/or Light Crossbow, depending on your needs. These 3 are simply, the best simple weapons. Xbow can be pricy at level 1, so maybe use a sling, which also isn't bad, and nearly free to use. Feats: Tough to call. If you're going to focus on blasting and ray spells, Point Blank Shot is fine (And use human bonus feat to snag Precise Shot). It will also help with weapon attacks. If you want to build for the future, consider getting a metamagic feat now, even though it won't be much use yet. Extend Spell and Empower Spell being the most useful to sorcerers. For right now...Improved Initiative is always handy. Spell Focus is good if you want to use mostly one school of magic for offense. Spell Penetration shouldn't matter at level 1, but likewise helps down the road. Eschew Materials is surprisingly useful, not the least because it basically makes it possible to cast in a grapple. By the same token, I'd value Still Spell over Silent Spell, since you can get the latter as a metamagic rod, and it is the somatic components that typically hinder spellcasting (arcane spell failure for armor; grappling). If this IS staying at level 1 and never going higher, Toughness is worth taking, but only if this is the case. [/QUOTE]
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