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<blockquote data-quote="two" data-source="post: 1680370" data-attributes="member: 9002">Rogues, roguesJust a general note:Rogues, particularly single-class rogues, are probably one of the weakest core classes.&nbsp; (I think they are by far the weakest, but that's me).&nbsp; (Given most standard campaign worlds, not a &quot;thieves's world&quot; setting).They require a fair amount of tactical planning, and min-maxxing of feats, in order to maximize the number of sneak attacks possible, and even then something as simple as cover/concealment/undead/etc. can render all sneak attacks void.&nbsp; It's not as uncommon as it sounds.Pretty much any fighter build can be useful and fun to play.&nbsp; Many rogue builds will be fun in certain ways (diplomatic skills, etc.) but utterly useless in combat. Which some people find annoying, both to play and to be in a party with.Spells can substitute for skills in a pinch (invisibility = hiding, silence spell = move silently, etc.), except for trap disarming. If you like the sneaky/skill archetype, but want a build that does not require heavy min/maxxing in order to be viable in combat, I'd suggest a straight bard, or a rogue2/barbarianx/somethingY combination.Rogue2/Barbarian2/Fighter4 or something can really pack a punch when flanking, and has good skills and rage qualities.Straight rogue, for example, is rather tricky to play without dying.&nbsp; Rogue10 is arguably weak compared to any other straight 10th level core class.&nbsp; Rogue20 is painfully weak, but probably only a bit worse than a fighter20 (fighters get shafted at high levels).&nbsp; But that's not something to worry about at level 1, sorry to distract!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="two, post: 1680370, member: 9002"] [b]Rogues, rogues[/b] Just a general note: Rogues, particularly single-class rogues, are probably one of the weakest core classes. (I think they are by far the weakest, but that's me). (Given most standard campaign worlds, not a "thieves's world" setting). They require a fair amount of tactical planning, and min-maxxing of feats, in order to maximize the number of sneak attacks possible, and even then something as simple as cover/concealment/undead/etc. can render all sneak attacks void. It's not as uncommon as it sounds. Pretty much any fighter build can be useful and fun to play. Many rogue builds will be fun in certain ways (diplomatic skills, etc.) but utterly useless in combat. Which some people find annoying, both to play and to be in a party with. Spells can substitute for skills in a pinch (invisibility = hiding, silence spell = move silently, etc.), except for trap disarming. If you like the sneaky/skill archetype, but want a build that does not require heavy min/maxxing in order to be viable in combat, I'd suggest a straight bard, or a rogue2/barbarianx/somethingY combination. Rogue2/Barbarian2/Fighter4 or something can really pack a punch when flanking, and has good skills and rage qualities. Straight rogue, for example, is rather tricky to play without dying. Rogue10 is arguably weak compared to any other straight 10th level core class. Rogue20 is painfully weak, but probably only a bit worse than a fighter20 (fighters get shafted at high levels). But that's not something to worry about at level 1, sorry to distract! [/QUOTE]

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