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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Erila of Sune" data-source="post: 1675986" data-attributes="member: 11150">Well, this is an issue near and dear to my heart, so I'll start by trying to establish what these two very distinct spell lines attempt to do.  Charm is, as you mention, a very simple spell type at heart.  It basically does just improve reactions, although to the point where victims tend to do things that would be quite out of character for their normal behavior.  More advanced spells of this type would induce stronger feelings, or might be woven with suggestion effects to produce more specific reactions.  An example of advanced charm effect would be a Philter of Love  Dominate is another route to controlling the actions of another.  Essentially, these spells are an attempt to outright override the will of their victim.  The victim of a successful Dominate effect is essentially an automation, but the mind doesn't like being restrained like this.  That makes it far easier to force someone to do something they have no particular feelings about rather than something they would object passionately to.  An example of an advanced dominate effect is the Thrall psionic power.  A -10 to the saving throw to resist self-destructive action is fairly hefty by itself, then remember that the order can be repeated once per round.  If you really want someone to impale themselves on their own sword, you will almost certainly succeed, and more likely sooner rather than later.  Suggestion spell effects are very straightforward.  You couch a single course of action and the target will, if you succeed, believe it to be a good idea.  Naturally, with weaker magics convincing someone that a certain course of action is a good idea when it's plainly not is simply not going to happen.  An example of an advanced suggestion effect would be the Sympathy spell.  While limited in scope, the suggestion in this case is nigh irresistible, and can easily lure a person to their death through inattention to surroundings.    Actually, the point of the above spell lines is to make a person do what you wish them to, regardless of their own wishes, a very different goal.  This is naturally a lot easier if it's something that they normally do in their everyday lives.  Forcing a clerk to sign your adventuring license (a daily activity for him) is a lot easier than forcing the same clerk to assault the king in his bed.  The former would never require a new save (although possibly a charisma check for a simple Charm Person might be called for if there's a really good reason for the character not to do it, say, an arrest warrant is out on the party's barbarian.)  The latter is extreme enough that it would definitely require a save, and in some cases may automatically break the spell.</blockquote>

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