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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wraith-Hunter" data-source="post: 3288326" data-attributes="member: 48298">Batmans is actually a tough one because of all the different versions of him. Some have used firearms and some were on the whole antifirearm kick in the 90's. SOme show him as being a good guy and some he is damn near LE. The "general" batman is usually more concerned with Justice than with the niceties of Law but could still be LG. Sometimes the legal system fails it self. Many times BM is a vigilanty but upholds moral (mala in se) laws. Whereas Superman is more of upholding both mala in se and mala phohibita. Batman generally cares for mala in se. I personally always prefered Good Lawful to Lawful Good. You see lots of cop shows and movies talk about this issue. A good one is 'A Time to Kill' with Donald Southerland, Matthew McHonaughy, Samule L Jackson. There is a really good scene where DS talks to MM and states that no matter who wins the case 'justice' is done. The kicker is wether natural justice or legal justice is done. IRL I know many people who are decent people and are very lawful. They are more concerned about following the law than determining if the law it self is just these are not LN people I am refering to. They try to do whats right but are -more- concerned with laws, they just don't think about wether the laws are just or not,this does not occur to them. If it is a law it is good enough for them. Then there are people who also believe in laws, very strongly they are very much lawful. But they look at the law themselves and see injustice and see evil and want the law changed or abolished. Feel good laws might be a good example. Say a jelous husband says he is going to come home and kill his wife. She tries to buy a handgun to defend herself. She can't because of waiting periods. The husband violates the restraining order comes over, she calls 911 and is killed before the cops get there. - Almost happened to my monther so this is an IRL. The waiting period was a feel good law. Most of the time it is an annoyance to lawabiding people but in some situations can cause the death of an inocent person. There is a counter point to this argument of course, and for brevity it is a simplified situation.The Civil War series of Comics already mentioned is another VERY good read for this argument. What do you do when a law is unjust. I have played with a DM who took a Paladins status away for breaking a law that was neutral at best. This particular DM was much more concerned with mala prohibita. Frankly the Paladin was screwed etiher way, not that the Dm saw it that way, no not my character. I don't like Paladins in general.So as far as advice goes find out what your DM thinks of as lawful vs chaotic. Personaly I detest law vs chaos unless it is very setting dependent where chaos magic has a totaly different mechanic from Law magic. Wherin Chaos magic is corrupting and inherently evil.I would rather see Law vs Chaos OR Good vs Evil. I don't think they mesh very well in DnD. I think it is better to use one or the other. I'm sure lots of people will disagree with me and this is just my preferance. I liked LvC in some novels I read but they were very setting dependent, not genaric DnD. Most DM's I've played with only used alignment for game based effects and were much more concerned with good vs evil. For instance the paladin can't go around killing bar maids for XP. But would not care if the paladin killed a murderer after he saw him kill an inocent child, even if technically he was supposed to 'dial 911' The DM basically viewed it as upholding mala in se laws, though he didn't use that term it is a legal one, that is how he played. I know other DM's that would consider that a chaotic act as it violated mala prohibita.Both of them are right  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> That is why you have to find out what your DM views as lawful because he is god in the game. THEN get specific advice. You can see this in this thread already different views of lawful behavior. And in this case both sides are right. What the argument breaks down to is wether you are more concerned with mala in se or mala prohibita.</blockquote>

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