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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FoxWander" data-source="post: 1111595" data-attributes="member: 1356">I like how this option gets rid of the singing and poetry aspect, but there are two problems I'd have with it. 1) A speaker that eloquent, and the examples you give are very appropriate, should be getting into politics not adventuring.2) It's the same problem as the bard- there's still a performance. I can't imagine any kind of song or speech being so rousing and emotional that it would give the effects of Inpire Courage/Greatness during a battle or Inspire Competence during a skill check. It's just the idea of some guy playing cheerleader on the sidelines (and probably attracting unwanted attention) instead of helping me kill monsters. I can't help but think the benefit of his sword would be more helpful than his music. Plus I keep picturing Sir Robin's minstrals from Monty Python. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> I'm thinking I should do away with the bard as a core-class and make it a PrC. Here's why- the 1st edition Bard was the only one that made the "enchanted music" idea work. Leveling thru fighter, thief and druid to become a "Bard" implied trials and hardships; learning secrets and ancient lore so the concept made sense. The 2E/3E Bard is just some tavern entertainer who goes adventuring and now he's somehow supernatural enchanting!? If the Bard were a PrC it'd have the semi-epic feel as the old Bard had and maybe those abilities would seem plausible. But as just a jack-of-all-trades who's slinging a lute rather than a sword, I just can't buy it. But the versatile Adventurer part I like, and it makes sense. I want the same class without the stero-typical Bard aspect of it. Is it just me? Does anybody else feel this way about bards? Any ideas how to replace the "bard" part with something spiffy, but equal, and keep the rest- without overshadowing some other class?</blockquote>

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