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<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 4985946" data-attributes="member: 177">What would I expect, if I read that on the back cover of a book?&nbsp; Honestly?I'd expect to see a story written by someone trying to shore up poor plotting, characterization, and wordsmithing with every genre element they can stuff in.&nbsp; I'd expect to see a &quot;Mary Sue&quot; style main character, and stilted dialog.&nbsp; Not that your writing is that way, but that's what I'd expect to see given that description.&nbsp; It is a marketing thing - like trying to sell me on a movie by telling me it has a big special effects budget.&nbsp; Your novel can have all those things in it, and be good.&nbsp; But having all those things does nothing at all to make it good, if you catch my meaning.&nbsp; It is an error to think you avoid cliche by stacking on elements until you've hit a new combination.&nbsp; That just means you have more elements, each of which can still be cliched.&nbsp; Cliche isn't in what tropes the story contains, but in how each of those tropes is applied.&nbsp; So, it is also an error to think you can convince me you avoid cliche by displaying how many elements you're using.What you've told me is that you've got a huge bunch of tropes, but you haven't told me you know how to use even one of them well.&nbsp; All this focus on the wizbang makes me expect that the wizbang is the focus of the piece - as opposed to, say, characterization or plot.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 4985946, member: 177"] What would I expect, if I read that on the back cover of a book? Honestly? I'd [I]expect[/I] to see a story written by someone trying to shore up poor plotting, characterization, and wordsmithing with every genre element they can stuff in. I'd expect to see a "Mary Sue" style main character, and stilted dialog. Not that your writing is that way, but that's what I'd [I]expect[/I] to see given that description. It is a marketing thing - like trying to sell me on a movie by telling me it has a big special effects budget. Your novel can have all those things in it, and be good. But having all those things does nothing at all to make it good, if you catch my meaning. It is an error to think you avoid cliche by stacking on elements until you've hit a new combination. That just means you have more elements, each of which can still be cliched. Cliche isn't in what tropes the story contains, but in how each of those tropes is applied. So, it is also an error to think you can convince me you avoid cliche by displaying how many elements you're using. What you've told me is that you've got a huge bunch of tropes, but you haven't told me you know how to use even one of them well. All this focus on the wizbang makes me expect that the wizbang is the focus of the piece - as opposed to, say, characterization or plot. [/QUOTE]

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