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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AFGNCAAP" data-source="post: 1420818" data-attributes="member: 871">Hello,Basically, I need a bit of help trying to figure out how to implement a campaign concept for the spellcasters in a homebrew that I'm working on.  But first, a bit of background:The homebrew setting is a world based off of a world I've designed for some fantasy stories I've been working on for well over a decade.  With the release of Unearthed Arcana, I feel that I now have better options that will help enable me to create a D&D/d20 game that best fits this setting idea.  One of the UA options that I'm using is the generic classes.Now, I'm having a bit of a problem with the Spellcaster class.  Basically, the limit on the # of spells known doesn't jive with the amount of magical knowledge that a mage in the setting would have (esp. with some kinds of spellcasters).  However, the Spellcaster's ability to cast spells without preparation (or need for a spellbook) is accurate.  So, I'm trying to figure out an effective way to implement these changes without really creating an uber-class.First off, here are some basics on magic/mages in the setting:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">No divine magic--the powers above (& below) do not bestow magical ability to their worshippers/priests.  All magic is arcane magic.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A Mage's ability to use magic is related by a having one particulary strong/developed/advanced mental faculty.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Mages can learn any type of spell they wish.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">There is no such thing as psionics, per se.  Psionics/psychic power is merely another term/label for magic.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A Mage is not limited in how much he/she knows--Mages have arcane power, and choose/learn how to use/apply that power.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">One has to be born a Mage in order to become a Mage.  Basically, you either have the ability, or you don't (sorta like the Force).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Mages can innately sense magical energies, & the level of magical power present--it does not mean they can instinctively/immediately tell what form the magic has taken or how it has been applied, but just that it's there & how much of it is there.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Each Mage has his/her own style/interpretation/use of magic.  This is reflected in how his/her spells manifest (the color of the arcane energy, the form the magics take, etc.).  All spells from a certain Mage will follow this pattern/theme--it's a reflection of the Mage's mind & the Mage himself/herself.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Mages, especially if properly trained, generally do not need material components for spells; only in a few instances does a Mage need a material object in order for a certain spell to work (esp. when casting an incantation).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Very few spells actually creater/manipulate elements/elemental energy--for the most part, it's just eldritch power that temporarily takes on the form of an energy or element (if the Mage so desires).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Those who have been properly trained (at the right time in their lives) in the use of magic are typically more powerful than those who are self-taught.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Most (if not all) forms of magic/magic spells is basically the use & expansion of certain basic forms of knowledge/ability regarding the use of magic; in essence, a more powerful spell like fireball is basically the advanced use/application of a weaker spell like burning hands.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Some spells are so powerful/unique/rare that they can only be used by the Mage preparing them ahead of time, performing/casting them in a ceremony, with the right materials available, while at a specific location/time that is rich with magical power.</li> </ul>So, what does all of this mean?  Well...<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">All Spellcasters are arcane spellcasters (though divine-based class ability feats like Turn Undead can be gained in the spellcaster has the right prerequisite spells);</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A Spellcaster can use Int, Wis, or Cha as the key ability for determining magic/spells (selected at character creation, & it can't be changed);</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You have to start play as a Spellcaster in order to be one (or, you have to select a feat at 1st level that will allow you to multi-class as a Spellcaster later on--sort of like being Force-sensitive in WEG's Star Wars RPG);</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A Spellcaster can learn any spell (from any list), & know as many spells as he/she wishes (with some limits--see below);</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Spellcasters basically have the ability to detect magic at will.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A Spellcaster must know certain low-level spells in order to ever learn/use a higher-level spell--for example, a mage must know burning hands in order to learn fireball, or must know cure minor wounds before learning cure light wounds.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Spells are essentially just forms of arcane energy with the general properties/appearance of other forms of material/energy (like fire, stone, ice, etc.).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A Spellcaster often have the Eschew Materials feat, if trained properly.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Some spells (like resurrection and wish) only exist as incantations;</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A Spellcaster who begins play as one will be more adept at magic use than a character who becomes a spellcaster later on (i.e., begins with another class & then multi-classes into a spellcaster).</li> </ul>Now, I really need help on balancing out these Spellcasters.  I have a few ideas, but I'd really appreciate some info/input/feedback from y'all.  Some of the ideas may go against the stuff I have written above, but I could easily change a few things to match this.Idea 1: Spell Point-Based Casters:First, I've considered using spell points.  A spellcaster wouldn't have any limits on # of spells known.  However, it'd be more expensive point-wise to spontaneously cast a spell without any sort of spell components than it would to cast a prepared spell, a spell with components, or any combination thereof.Thus, a spellcaster could spontaneously cast spells, but he/she would run out of spell points faster this way.  However, if the caster spents time preparing a spell & using the spell components (material, verbal, &/or somatic) for the spell, then the spell would cost less.This option seems doable, but it'd eliminate the value of metamagic feats like silent spell & still spell (however, even if a spellcaster spontaneously casts a spell without using any spell components, he/she still faces ASF while in armor).Idea 2: Limited Spontaneous Spellcasting:In this version, a spellcaster has no limits on the # of spells known.  However, he/she must spent time preparing the spells ahead of time (though not neceassarily using a spellbook or not--just a set amount of time meditating/preparing the magic).However, the # of spells known chart for the Spellcaster class is used for another purpose--the # of spells known that the Spellcaster can cast spontaneously, without any preparation (and, sort of like a cleric, a spellcaster can opt to drop a prepared spell in order to cast a spell from this list).Idea 3: Prestige Class for the Beginning Spellcasters Only:In this version, a special PrC only available for characters who begin play as spellcasters (& properly trained as such) gain several beneifts, like no limit on # of spells known, the ability to detect magic at will, etc.  This will be a 10- to 15-level PrC.Characters who don't begin play as spellcasters, but who multi-class as spellcasters later on, follow the standard spell limits & restrictions for the Spellcaster class.Idea 4: Prestige Class for the Later-in-Life Spellcasters:Combined with Idea 1 or 2, this option forbids any characters who don't begin play as spellcasters from multi-classing as spellcasters (basically, the Spellcaster class is a core class only available to 1st-level starting characters).  Instead, the may select a special PrC which grants them limited spellcasting ability (like an adept or bard, from 0-lvl. to 5th- or 6th-lvl. spells only).In addition to this, I may require these later-in-life spellcasters to specialize in a school/aspect of magic (like evocation, healing, fire, etc.), to reflect their limited magical ability & their need to .In all of these ideas, I intend to keep a few concepts like spell prerequisites (i.e., knowing burning hands in order to learn fireball), restricting certain spells to be available/usable as incantations only, & the arcane magic label (& the chances for ASF while in armor).Keep in mind that more often than not, the Spellcaster may be the party's only source of offensive, defensive, & curative magics—there’d be heavy demand on these spellcasters to serve as a traditional D&D cleric for the combat-types of the group.  (There could be more than 1 spellcaster in a group, but that would mean more unarmored, weaker combatant-types that may need protection from enemies.)Well, any ideas/opinions/comments/etc. you have to offer?  I’d appreciate any help/insight that you could provide.</blockquote>

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