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<blockquote data-quote="El Mahdi" data-source="post: 5568366" data-attributes="member: 59506"><p>The problem with making them a high level character is due to the inherent shortfalls that an experience based level/class system has - that what you know (skills, proficiency) is linked to Experience. In the real world that couldn't be further from the truth. But it is a game, and the experience class/level mechanic is a good one for presenting advancement in a game, so there you have it. I don't know of any better models, but that's just my own ignorance and not a comment on whether they exist or not. But in any system meant to played as a game, learning new things (gaining more skill/power/etc.) is almost always a player reward for adventuring.</p><p> </p><p>In the real world, special ops guys aren't more proficient or deadly because of their combat experience - it's because they train, train, and train even more.</p><p> </p><p>Seal Team 6 wasn't so effective in their recent accomplishment in Pakistan because of their experience (at least not entirely, experience can never be ignored...). They were so lethal because of all the training they've had. from BUDS on up. That's one key of military life - training never stops. If anything, training actually increases when you reach the lofty heights of special ops (<em>lofty heights</em> is just a joke - special ops spends more time in the dirt than anybody else). Those guys were able to assault that complex so efficiently, because they spent <em>months</em> practicing it on a mock-up - with as many different possible variables as they could think of, and I'm sure with as many runs as possible including live fire. They probably spent the 6 months before that assault planning and practicing just that one mission, 12 or more hours a day, 7 days a week. These guys can pull off seeming miraculous shooting all due to the constant practice. For them it's nothing special, just muscle memory and familiarity, but all due to training/practice. That's the real difference between them and regular soldiers. Sure, there's a real physical difference to start with (that's not necessarily strength or constitution) - they can endure hardship and recover from said hardship better and quicker than a regular soldier. But <em>THE</em> difference is the time and money (budget) they can spend on training. It's also the difference between these forces and other countries forces that don't have this time and money, let alone the requisite knowledge base, to train such forces to such a level.</p><p> </p><p>So for me, what's realistic isn't the level of the character, it's the skills they know and the proficiency they have with them that models a special ops soldier. But, since it's a game based on advancement through experience, I'd recommend first determining/deciding what a special ops guy <em>knows</em> (skills) and the level of proficiency they would need to have with those skills - then determine what level that would equate to. Alternatively, still start with determining their skills and proficiency, but then determine a level adjustment for play as a 3rd to 5th level character.</p><p> </p><p>I agree that 10th level is definitely too high. Due to the link to experience, that would mean a character would need to have years of actual combat experience before ever even being considered for special ops. That seems both unrealistic and impractical to me.</p><p> </p><p>Something else that might help model the extreme skill of special ops over regular soldiers, is provide them a situational bonus/modifier to their skills and attack/damage/defense scores due to the training/practice done prior to a mission. Then, even at a similiar experience level of a regular soldier, they have a definite advantage due to their training and practice. (But that would be a GM thing, and not a player thing...)</p><p> </p><p><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite6" alt=":cool:" title="Cool :cool:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":cool:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="El Mahdi, post: 5568366, member: 59506"] The problem with making them a high level character is due to the inherent shortfalls that an experience based level/class system has - that what you know (skills, proficiency) is linked to Experience. In the real world that couldn't be further from the truth. But it is a game, and the experience class/level mechanic is a good one for presenting advancement in a game, so there you have it. I don't know of any better models, but that's just my own ignorance and not a comment on whether they exist or not. But in any system meant to played as a game, learning new things (gaining more skill/power/etc.) is almost always a player reward for adventuring. In the real world, special ops guys aren't more proficient or deadly because of their combat experience - it's because they train, train, and train even more. Seal Team 6 wasn't so effective in their recent accomplishment in Pakistan because of their experience (at least not entirely, experience can never be ignored...). They were so lethal because of all the training they've had. from BUDS on up. That's one key of military life - training never stops. If anything, training actually increases when you reach the lofty heights of special ops ([I]lofty heights[/I] is just a joke - special ops spends more time in the dirt than anybody else). Those guys were able to assault that complex so efficiently, because they spent [I]months[/I] practicing it on a mock-up - with as many different possible variables as they could think of, and I'm sure with as many runs as possible including live fire. They probably spent the 6 months before that assault planning and practicing just that one mission, 12 or more hours a day, 7 days a week. These guys can pull off seeming miraculous shooting all due to the constant practice. For them it's nothing special, just muscle memory and familiarity, but all due to training/practice. That's the real difference between them and regular soldiers. Sure, there's a real physical difference to start with (that's not necessarily strength or constitution) - they can endure hardship and recover from said hardship better and quicker than a regular soldier. But [I]THE[/I] difference is the time and money (budget) they can spend on training. It's also the difference between these forces and other countries forces that don't have this time and money, let alone the requisite knowledge base, to train such forces to such a level. So for me, what's realistic isn't the level of the character, it's the skills they know and the proficiency they have with them that models a special ops soldier. But, since it's a game based on advancement through experience, I'd recommend first determining/deciding what a special ops guy [I]knows[/I] (skills) and the level of proficiency they would need to have with those skills - then determine what level that would equate to. Alternatively, still start with determining their skills and proficiency, but then determine a level adjustment for play as a 3rd to 5th level character. I agree that 10th level is definitely too high. Due to the link to experience, that would mean a character would need to have years of actual combat experience before ever even being considered for special ops. That seems both unrealistic and impractical to me. Something else that might help model the extreme skill of special ops over regular soldiers, is provide them a situational bonus/modifier to their skills and attack/damage/defense scores due to the training/practice done prior to a mission. Then, even at a similiar experience level of a regular soldier, they have a definite advantage due to their training and practice. (But that would be a GM thing, and not a player thing...) :cool: [/QUOTE]
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