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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cocomonkey" data-source="post: 7853559" data-attributes="member: 7017367">Right (although it would be with DEX, not STR).Yeah. And I think you'd still need to attack with your regular fists for the grapple (can't grapple through a weapon, after all). Then punch with the astral arms for regular attack and bonus attacks.It's a monk weapon, so it would use your martial arts die, yep.If it's a fighter with restraining strike like you mention later, it would still be expending resources (superiority die) to grapple. Using WIS over STR as a monk versus fighter is mostly just flavor, letting you do the same thing as a monk as you would as a fighter, with a stat you'll likely have a higher score in.TBH, I'm not sure I see the appeal of the unarmed fighting style. The d8 attack only works on the initial attack; once it's grappled, it would be a d6 damage die (because you only have one hand free, the other is holding the target), so once a monk scales up to d8 MA die, they're out-damaging that. The extra grapple damage is only a d4, so only 2.5/rd on average (which I know can add up over time, but still). And restraining strike can't even trigger off of an unarmed attack (it requires a melee weapon attack, not a melee attack, so an unarmed strike wouldn't trigger it). So unarmed fighting style and restraining strike...don't go together well? All the UA style adds is the extra d4 damage per round.So correct me if I'm wrong, but at 11, a fighter with 20 STR, UA style, and restraining strike would what...d10+5 weapon attack (assuming LS used 2h), superiority die/restraining strike as BA (+9 + 4.5 for sup die, so +13.5, avg, or +17.5 avg with Prodigy) for d4, then 2 more attacks for d8+5 with advantage (LS used 1h). Subsequent rounds would be 3 attacks for d8+5 with advantage plus d4. No BA attacks once it's grappled (that I can think of). So...Round 1 - d10+2d8+15+d4 = 5.5+9+2.5+15 = 32 dmg avgRound 2+ - 3d8+15+d4 = 13.5+15+2.5 = 31 dmg avg5 rounds = 156 dmg5 rounds if you use action surge in one of them = 184.5 dmg(Not factoring in advantage, because I don't know offhand how that affects these kinds of calculations.With the Astral Self Monk at that point with say 20 DEX and 14 WIS, round 1 would be BA trigger arms, attack for grapple (+6, or +10 with Prodigy), extra attack for d8+5+d8 (bonus astral arm damage), with advantage if with Grappler (but if so, no Prodigy or less DEX). Subsequent rounds would be 2 attacks and 2 BAs each for 1d8+5, with advantage if with Grappler, plus the 1d8 bonus die for attacking with the arms. And if you know combat is about to occur, you can summon the arms beforehand as preparation; they last 10 minutes. So...(No Arms Already) Round 1 - BA arms, grapple, 2d8+5 dmg = 14 dmg avg(No Arms Already) Round 2+ - 5d8+20 = 44.5 dmg avg(No Arms Already) 5 rounds = 192 dmg avg(Arms Already Out) Round 1 - grapple, 2d8+5 (reg attack+bonus), 2d8+10 (BA) = 33 dmg avg(Arms Already Out) Round 2+- 5d8+20 = 44.5 dmg avg(Arms Already Out) 5 rounds = 211 dmg avgAm I missing something here with the math? It seems to me like an Astral Monk in this situation is going to out-damage a fighter with restraining strike and UA, even if they use a weapon. And even if the monk has to spend the first round setting up, over 5 rounds they'd out-dmg a fighter even if the fighter action surges.If the monk takes both grappler (to match the advantage on attacks from restraining strike) at prodigy (for the boost to Athletics to keep the grapple) and loses say, 2 DEX, that only drops the 5-round averages to 175 dmg average with no arms already out and 193 dmg average if they're already out. Still higher than the fighter.Outside of the grapple situation, sure, the fighter would be making 3 attacks for 1d10+5 (with LS used 2h) or 1d8+5 (with shield) versus 3 attacks (no flurry) for 1d8+5, and would have higher AC (18/20 versus 17 for Monk). And less HP (d8 versus d10, and likely lower CON, so what, around 2/3 of the HP of the fighter?). So survivability would be a factor, for sure. But as long as it stays alive, seems like it will out-damage the fighter, and if it ops not to grapple, the arms can be used as reach weapons to still make the 5d8+20 round attacks against anyone within 10 feet (so increased survivability).</blockquote>

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