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Message: <blockquote data-quote="gariig" data-source="post: 937543" data-attributes="member: 1120">The biggest problem you seem to have is...CR and ECL are totally different mechanics.  You are trying to equate attack rolls and skill rolls.  They are similar mechanics at a very high level, but once you get into the meat and potatos of it, they are different.  A CR and a CR+Class Levels is based on the fact they will live for one encounter.  That is it, that is all.  Nothing more.  ECL and ECL+Racial HD is based on the fact that they can and will live for more than on encounter.  So, something like having fast healing for a CR is just mediocre, you will live one round more.  Now, for ECL healing 100 HPs in minutes is a HUGE boon.  Every cleric dreams off this, but if you can heal like that you definitely are more powerful then an elf.Now, as far as letting ECL classes into a party there is a problem.  Someone had a good rule of thumb, ECL can't be more than half your Class levels+Racial HD.  If you have a +10 ECL(with no racial HD) creature fighter 1 play with your level 10 party, he WILL die the first encounter.  An ECL 5(with no racial HD) could be a fighter 5 and probably survive and have fun.Also, you do realize that creatures like the stone giant are broken down into ECL and Racial HD?  So, a stone giant has 14 HD of Giant levels and a +4 ECL?  If you play as a stone giant fighter 1 you have 14d8+1d10 HP, feats from 15 HD(6 feats plus one fighter bonus), skills, a good fort save, plus stone giant special abilities(which are negligible, except HIGH STR and reach).Gariig</blockquote>

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