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<blockquote data-quote="Jester David" data-source="post: 7528017" data-attributes="member: 37579"><p>Personal failings. When someone replies to me I have to reply. It's an obsessive need. </p><p></p><p>I started asking why it matters why he was changing a setting that was designed to be changed:</p><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?655133-Nentir-Vale-Coming-to-Dungeons-and-Dragons/page3&p=7526684#post7526684" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?655133-Nentir-Vale-Coming-to-Dungeons-and-Dragons/page3&p=7526684#post7526684</a></p><p></p><p>And then that segued into the concerns that this will somehow <em>hurt</em> the setting:</p><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?655133-Nentir-Vale-Coming-to-Dungeons-and-Dragons/page3&p=7526768#post7526768" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?655133-Nentir-Vale-Coming-to-Dungeons-and-Dragons/page3&p=7526768#post7526768</a></p><p></p><p>Which is a pet peeve of mine. Us fans in general are always quick to shout something willl be <a href="https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Ruined_FOREVER" target="_blank">ruined… forever</a>! </p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah… <em>Curse of Strahd</em> isn't a campaign setting. It's an update of the 1e adventure that strip mined the setting to expand the adventure into a mini-campaign, rewriting large swaths of the region. And then rewrites large chunks of the main character's backstory while also revealing one of the biggest mysteries of the world. </p><p></p><p>It's a good adventure. It's a terrible Ravenloft campaign setting product. </p><p>And yet, that didn't matter. Because I can still run the world however I want with the books I already have. </p><p></p><p></p><p>I think a big reason is that the target audience (Eberron fans) already has the books. Why buy them again?</p><p>Which is the problem. You're trying to get people to buy content they already have that many are going to consider inferiour to the original. You have to bank on large numbers of new fans making up the difference. But that doesn't always work.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Trying to talk you off the ledge and not let you make my mistakes?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Okay… Ravenloft. </p><p></p><p>Love me some Ravenloft.</p><p>Especially the later 2e books and the 3e licenced books by Swords & Sorcery.</p><p></p><p>Chris Perkins also likes Ravenloft. His first published adventure was for the setting. He recently talking about his view of the setting on the offical podcast DragonTalk and his views are polar opposites of mine. He prefers the setting to be small one-shots or mini campaigns where you get pulled into the Mists, have an adventure, possibly kill the darklord, and escape. Which is the opposite of my favourite campaign where you're born into the Land of the Mists and its the only home you know, and you have a long term campaign attempting to defend it from evil, never facing the unassailable darklords whom you may not even realize exist.</p><p></p><p>And they've updated I6 <em>Castle Ravenloft</em> twice in recent memory. 3e's <em>Expedition to Castle Ravenloft</em> and 5e's <em>Curse of Strahd</em>. Both of which were terrible updates. In 3e we had Strahd reimagined as the Dread Pirate Lestat and Madame Eva was a hag. (?!?) And the castle and adventure was full of all manner of aberrations and demons, mistakenly mixing Lovecraftian horror with gothic horror. And in <em>Curse of Strahd</em> (as I mention to doctorbadwolf) the setting was stripmined for ideas and proper nouns to expand the adventure. Madame Eva has an entirely different backstory as well, and isn't the Raunie of the Zarovan Vistani. Strahd was an evil conqueror who was always a monster, and just became a vampire, rather than tragically falling from grace. Van Richten is a cleric. (Wtf?) The church of the Morninglord was always in Barovia. The ring of choking fog no longer encircles the Village of Barovia but instead surrounds the entire province (meaning there are no other lands in the Core anymore) and Vistani potions do nothing against the fog. There’s no mention of Sturm von Zarovich, the middle child between Strahd and Sergei, and the von Zarovich lineage is dead. And <em>Curse of Strahd</em> presents Ireena Kolyana as being a contemporary of Van Richten, despite her living 170 years earlier. And most egregiously, the nature of the "Death" Strahd makes a pact with is revealed: it's just a vestige in some weird temple made of Amber. It reveals what the Dark Powers are, which was the biggest mystery of the setting purposely kept vague and mysterious for twenty years.</p><p></p><p>Ruined! From now on, every player introduced to the setting will only know of Barovia and not awesome locations, such as Mordent and Souragne. But given how the treated so much of the setting in <em>Curse of Strahd</em>, it's probably a good thing they're not doing the rest of the setting. </p><p>I used to leave sleep over this. But it wasn’t worth it. Life is just too short.</p><p></p><p>It just doesn't matter. </p><p>Does. Not. Matter.</p><p>Because new players wouldn't have known about the setting one way or another. </p><p>And it doesn't affect me since I still have my old books. And I don't play D&D with brand new players fresh out of high school. It has zero impact on my life or my campaign. And, as it turned out, the overall health and popularity of the Ravenloft setting, as very few people purchased the old books or visited the Ravenloft fan sites I'm a part of. </p><p></p><p>Telling fans of the “new” Ravenloft that they're doing it wrong and they like a bastardized version of the setting would just be pure gatekeeping. </p><p>Instead, I should just be happy they’re enjoying something simmilar to what I enjoy.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jester David, post: 7528017, member: 37579"] Personal failings. When someone replies to me I have to reply. It's an obsessive need. I started asking why it matters why he was changing a setting that was designed to be changed: [url]http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?655133-Nentir-Vale-Coming-to-Dungeons-and-Dragons/page3&p=7526684#post7526684[/url] And then that segued into the concerns that this will somehow [I]hurt[/I] the setting: [url]http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?655133-Nentir-Vale-Coming-to-Dungeons-and-Dragons/page3&p=7526768#post7526768[/url] Which is a pet peeve of mine. Us fans in general are always quick to shout something willl be [url=https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Ruined_FOREVER]ruined… forever[/url]! Yeah… [i]Curse of Strahd[/i] isn't a campaign setting. It's an update of the 1e adventure that strip mined the setting to expand the adventure into a mini-campaign, rewriting large swaths of the region. And then rewrites large chunks of the main character's backstory while also revealing one of the biggest mysteries of the world. It's a good adventure. It's a terrible Ravenloft campaign setting product. And yet, that didn't matter. Because I can still run the world however I want with the books I already have. I think a big reason is that the target audience (Eberron fans) already has the books. Why buy them again? Which is the problem. You're trying to get people to buy content they already have that many are going to consider inferiour to the original. You have to bank on large numbers of new fans making up the difference. But that doesn't always work. Trying to talk you off the ledge and not let you make my mistakes? Okay… Ravenloft. Love me some Ravenloft. Especially the later 2e books and the 3e licenced books by Swords & Sorcery. Chris Perkins also likes Ravenloft. His first published adventure was for the setting. He recently talking about his view of the setting on the offical podcast DragonTalk and his views are polar opposites of mine. He prefers the setting to be small one-shots or mini campaigns where you get pulled into the Mists, have an adventure, possibly kill the darklord, and escape. Which is the opposite of my favourite campaign where you're born into the Land of the Mists and its the only home you know, and you have a long term campaign attempting to defend it from evil, never facing the unassailable darklords whom you may not even realize exist. And they've updated I6 [i]Castle Ravenloft[/i] twice in recent memory. 3e's [i]Expedition to Castle Ravenloft[/i] and 5e's [i]Curse of Strahd[/i]. Both of which were terrible updates. In 3e we had Strahd reimagined as the Dread Pirate Lestat and Madame Eva was a hag. (?!?) And the castle and adventure was full of all manner of aberrations and demons, mistakenly mixing Lovecraftian horror with gothic horror. And in [i]Curse of Strahd[/i] (as I mention to doctorbadwolf) the setting was stripmined for ideas and proper nouns to expand the adventure. Madame Eva has an entirely different backstory as well, and isn't the Raunie of the Zarovan Vistani. Strahd was an evil conqueror who was always a monster, and just became a vampire, rather than tragically falling from grace. Van Richten is a cleric. (Wtf?) The church of the Morninglord was always in Barovia. The ring of choking fog no longer encircles the Village of Barovia but instead surrounds the entire province (meaning there are no other lands in the Core anymore) and Vistani potions do nothing against the fog. There’s no mention of Sturm von Zarovich, the middle child between Strahd and Sergei, and the von Zarovich lineage is dead. And [i]Curse of Strahd[/i] presents Ireena Kolyana as being a contemporary of Van Richten, despite her living 170 years earlier. And most egregiously, the nature of the "Death" Strahd makes a pact with is revealed: it's just a vestige in some weird temple made of Amber. It reveals what the Dark Powers are, which was the biggest mystery of the setting purposely kept vague and mysterious for twenty years. Ruined! From now on, every player introduced to the setting will only know of Barovia and not awesome locations, such as Mordent and Souragne. But given how the treated so much of the setting in [i]Curse of Strahd[/i], it's probably a good thing they're not doing the rest of the setting. I used to leave sleep over this. But it wasn’t worth it. Life is just too short. It just doesn't matter. Does. Not. Matter. Because new players wouldn't have known about the setting one way or another. And it doesn't affect me since I still have my old books. And I don't play D&D with brand new players fresh out of high school. It has zero impact on my life or my campaign. And, as it turned out, the overall health and popularity of the Ravenloft setting, as very few people purchased the old books or visited the Ravenloft fan sites I'm a part of. Telling fans of the “new” Ravenloft that they're doing it wrong and they like a bastardized version of the setting would just be pure gatekeeping. Instead, I should just be happy they’re enjoying something simmilar to what I enjoy. [/QUOTE]
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