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Nerfing Holy Weapon for Xanathar's Guide
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<blockquote data-quote="kbrakke" data-source="post: 7376312" data-attributes="member: 6781797"><p>How much damage do you think a 5th level spell should do? It's 1 hour with concentration, so I would expect it to last for 2 to 3 fights, less if your cleric doesn't hide every turn. Assuming a ~5 round combat our super buffed ranger gets an extra 2d8 * 5 (rounds) * 2 (attacks) * 3 (combats) or 270 damage. Cone of cold by comparison does ~36 per target so you would need to hit 7.5 people to match it. </p><p>Honestly, a very good holy weapon which involves the cleric hiding and contributing less to combat is about equal to a very good cone of cold. It seems like a reasonable trade off. </p><p>If you only have 1 combat in that hour, Holy weapon looks pretty bad, if your cleric doesn't just hide every round it creates a sub-objective for the monsters which can be fun and also reduce the power, if your ranger misses attacks (Though admittedly at level 9 I assume players always hit) then it starts to look worse. Alternately if your combats tend to have fewer stronger monsters then Holy Weapon looks a lot better. In either case, there are actual tradeoffs here, and too much in one direction can be mitigated.</p><p>And at the end of the day, players dealing more damage or hitting more often are the least of my concerns when I try to make a compelling and difficult combat for my players.</p><p></p><p>My overall suggestion, don't nerf it, your best case scenario is about as good as other best case spells at that level (Other things at that level that worry me more: 2x Banishment, 4x Hold Person, Animate Objects, Synaptic Static, Scrying, Wall of Force). If a spell encouraged my players to develop tactics like the cleric enchanting the ranger and then focusing on keeping concentration I would be ecstatic, combats where the players have sub-objectives (Keep this spell going) are much more fun than simple melees. Your worries sound more like theorycrafting than actual in play problems, and I would almost never nerf something without seeing it in play first.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="kbrakke, post: 7376312, member: 6781797"] How much damage do you think a 5th level spell should do? It's 1 hour with concentration, so I would expect it to last for 2 to 3 fights, less if your cleric doesn't hide every turn. Assuming a ~5 round combat our super buffed ranger gets an extra 2d8 * 5 (rounds) * 2 (attacks) * 3 (combats) or 270 damage. Cone of cold by comparison does ~36 per target so you would need to hit 7.5 people to match it. Honestly, a very good holy weapon which involves the cleric hiding and contributing less to combat is about equal to a very good cone of cold. It seems like a reasonable trade off. If you only have 1 combat in that hour, Holy weapon looks pretty bad, if your cleric doesn't just hide every round it creates a sub-objective for the monsters which can be fun and also reduce the power, if your ranger misses attacks (Though admittedly at level 9 I assume players always hit) then it starts to look worse. Alternately if your combats tend to have fewer stronger monsters then Holy Weapon looks a lot better. In either case, there are actual tradeoffs here, and too much in one direction can be mitigated. And at the end of the day, players dealing more damage or hitting more often are the least of my concerns when I try to make a compelling and difficult combat for my players. My overall suggestion, don't nerf it, your best case scenario is about as good as other best case spells at that level (Other things at that level that worry me more: 2x Banishment, 4x Hold Person, Animate Objects, Synaptic Static, Scrying, Wall of Force). If a spell encouraged my players to develop tactics like the cleric enchanting the ranger and then focusing on keeping concentration I would be ecstatic, combats where the players have sub-objectives (Keep this spell going) are much more fun than simple melees. Your worries sound more like theorycrafting than actual in play problems, and I would almost never nerf something without seeing it in play first. [/QUOTE]
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