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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 8084143" data-attributes="member: 22779">AC didn't help enough?&nbsp; Bracers of Defence AC 2, Ring +3 Cloak +3 and a middling Dex and I've got a -6 AC.&nbsp; Most creatures need a 20 to hit me.&nbsp; And that was easily achievable in single digit levels&nbsp; in AD&amp;D.Oh, and with my now +6 on saving throws, yeah, I don't fail saving throws.&nbsp; Let's not forget, that +6 applies to my equipment as well.&nbsp;&nbsp; So, that aforementioned Staff of the Magi, needed an 11 to save vs fire - 9 with it's automatic +2 (why the lich didn't just absorb the fireball, I'm not sure), plus the lich's Magic Resistance.&nbsp; So, we needed to roll under a 6 for the Lich to fail it's save, then the staff needed to roll under a 9 to be destroyed by a fireball.&nbsp; And, that's assuming the lich did not have any rings of protection or cloaks.&nbsp; Or any defensive spells up.&nbsp; Or a simple ring of fire resistance.&nbsp; Sure, it could happen, but, against a PC?&nbsp; Not likely.&nbsp; That 18th level PC would probably fail the fireball save on a 1 and the staff would fail on a 2.&nbsp; Not very likely.And, let's be honest, any PC on his or her own was dead.&nbsp; Lone fighter is mulch.&nbsp; Single failed poison save and poof, dead fighter.&nbsp; Meanwhile, my lone MU is alone for about 1 round.&nbsp; That's the amount of time it takes to cast a Charm Person/Monster spell.&nbsp; And, again, this could easily last for days.&nbsp; Never minding Monster Summoning spells, Summon Elementals - oh, look, I can hit creatures that need +2 weapons to be hit.&nbsp; So on and so forth.OTOH, was it 2e that changed Stoneskin to a number of attacks?&nbsp; I seem to recall it was something like a d4+something or other attacks that you were immune to.&nbsp; Was that 2e?&nbsp; But, the point you are forgetting is that I get a free round of actions where you can't hurt me.&nbsp; Fly away, teleport, heck, the simple Jump spell and I'm long gone.&nbsp; And, by the way, you should read that spell.&nbsp; If a Monk's fists don't break the spell, getting slapped in a bar won't either.It always amazes me just how different people's experiences are with the game.&nbsp; Like I said earlier, if your MU is in combat, someone done screwed up.&nbsp; A lot.&nbsp; Why isn't your MU thirty feet behind the party with a wall of armored dudes in front?&nbsp; Do people just wade into combat with MU's?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 8084143, member: 22779"] AC didn't help enough? Bracers of Defence AC 2, Ring +3 Cloak +3 and a middling Dex and I've got a -6 AC. Most creatures need a 20 to hit me. And that was easily achievable in single digit levels in AD&D. Oh, and with my now +6 on saving throws, yeah, I don't fail saving throws. Let's not forget, that +6 applies to my equipment as well. So, that aforementioned Staff of the Magi, needed an 11 to save vs fire - 9 with it's automatic +2 (why the lich didn't just absorb the fireball, I'm not sure), plus the lich's Magic Resistance. So, we needed to roll under a 6 for the Lich to fail it's save, then the staff needed to roll under a 9 to be destroyed by a fireball. And, that's assuming the lich did not have any rings of protection or cloaks. Or any defensive spells up. Or a simple ring of fire resistance. Sure, it could happen, but, against a PC? Not likely. That 18th level PC would probably fail the fireball save on a 1 and the staff would fail on a 2. Not very likely. And, let's be honest, any PC on his or her own was dead. Lone fighter is mulch. Single failed poison save and poof, dead fighter. Meanwhile, my lone MU is alone for about 1 round. That's the amount of time it takes to cast a Charm Person/Monster spell. And, again, this could easily last for days. Never minding Monster Summoning spells, Summon Elementals - oh, look, I can hit creatures that need +2 weapons to be hit. So on and so forth. OTOH, was it 2e that changed Stoneskin to a number of attacks? I seem to recall it was something like a d4+something or other attacks that you were immune to. Was that 2e? But, the point you are forgetting is that I get a free round of actions where you can't hurt me. Fly away, teleport, heck, the simple Jump spell and I'm long gone. And, by the way, you should read that spell. If a Monk's fists don't break the spell, getting slapped in a bar won't either. It always amazes me just how different people's experiences are with the game. Like I said earlier, if your MU is in combat, someone done screwed up. A lot. Why isn't your MU thirty feet behind the party with a wall of armored dudes in front? Do people just wade into combat with MU's? [/QUOTE]

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