Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6370185" data-attributes="member: 6696971">I won't speak for pemerton, but I will speak for someone who is really tired of that edition war salvo (intentional or not) because it's dismissive and also flat out wrong. There seems to be some urgency to frame 4e in the light of the context of either a video game or a board game. The implications therein are abundantly clear; not part of the trad d&d club or somehow less of an RPG (if even one at all). If you don't mean it that way, I would suggest being plain about it or just staying away from it altogether. It's history of being willfully incendiary doesn't perpetuate a good faith dialogue, especially when it's your lead.With respect to its "wrongness", I think Iosue has a pretty good handle on the issue with his post above, specifically the "long a part of the game" (but now transparent and coherently engineered) statement. But there is more to it, including melee control being a real life "thing" so actually more "fiction-first" than a combat engine that doesn't include it.  From a WoW perspective, I played the game at the cutting edge of content from its release through Spring of 2009. Actual 4e play by proficient GMs and players who grok it bears absolutely 0 resemblance to WoW or any other MMO.  4e did a few things that are regularly trotted out (typically by edition warriors) as "video gamey":1) Transparent, coherent, codified combat roles. 2) Defender mechanics, specifically Marking.3) The "level treadmill" and the feedback system that you've correlated to a Skinner Box phenomenon in a prior post (thus alluding to MMO operant conditioning being intrinsic to 4e).I don't care to break out a longer dissection of these 1-3 until I'm sure I've nailed down the telltale video game markers that you feel are intentionally embedded into 4e (which move it away from the TTRPG segment and toward the MMO or CRPG segment). Does that cover it?</blockquote>

Verification