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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GSHamster" data-source="post: 6370944" data-attributes="member: 20187">I'm primarily an MMO player. Here's how I see 4E moved closer to MMOs (at least those of the WoW generation)1, More defined roles. MMOs of that generation are heavily governed by the Trinity (tank-healer-damage), and the mechanics enforce those roles. As a result, classes tend to heavily specialize into their role. 4E classes aim at more defined roles than classes in previous editions. Before 4E, classes may have fallen into a role de facto. In 4E, classes were put into roles de jure.2. The encounter as the central unit. Most MMOs approach each encounter fresh. HP are back to full, resources are back to the starting point, etc. The state of the PC as combat starts is independent of what happened in previous encounters. Prior to 4E, this was very much not true for D&D. The initial state of the PC depended heavily on the previous enounters. 4E, especially with elements like encounter powers, moved a lot closer to the MMO state.3. Powers for all classes, especially non-magic ones. Before 4E, warriors just attacked. In 4E they used specific powers. This is closer to an MMO non-magical class.4. More emphasis on tactical movement, including positioning and things like knockbacks, etc.Now, I'm not saying that these are bad changes. Again, I'm primarily an MMO player so I like MMO mechanics. What I'm saying is that in late 3E WotC took a look at its players and its competition. Where were the people (geeky gamers) who normally played D&D? What WotC saw was a lot of people, who in the past would be playing D&D, were playing games like WoW instead.I believe WotC saw MMOs as their primary competition, not pen-and-paper companies like Pazio. When faced with competition like this, there are generally two ways to go:1. Assimilate the best parts of your competition. Maybe WotC's research showed that people liked the stronger mechanics of MMOs. That non-mages liked having cool powers. So that's the tack they took with 4E. They attempted to compete with MMOs by incorporating what they saw as best parts of the MMO game mechanics.2. Emphasize the differences. The most important difference between an MMO and D&D is the human DM. The human DM does some stuff poorly comparatively (mathematical calculations) and some stuff a lot better (handling social, unexpected situations). This is the tack that 5E is taking.I think that 4E failed because WotC misunderstood the best parts of MMO mechanics. The "killer" mechanics of MMO are not the combat ones, it is the social ones. The ability to play with other people far more easily than in the real world.Those of you with real life gaming groups are incredibly lucky. Every so often I try to get a tabletop gaming group going, and it just never works out. But I find it far easier to join a guild or get a group going in an MMO. Not to mention that I can play an MMO far more often and in a more convenient fashion.</blockquote>

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