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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aelryinth" data-source="post: 8097427" data-attributes="member: 10515">So, you went with the personal insults instead of reason. Hey, great. I was looking past it. Ad hominem idiocy is ad hominem idiocy.Sure, I was referencing 3e, but the fact is that cost and production issues can be worked past with manpower, and magical tools to help crafters are ubiquitous EVERYWHERE. THAT WAS THE POINT. The rest was examples on how to do so, which you promptly turned into an edition war.If you are suddenly restricting supply by arbitrary means, then they don't have unlimited gunpowder access now, do they, which means the point of the OP is now moot. Hiring more people to make you the stuff faster costs the exact same as paying one person to make it themself... it's all still man-hours of labor.When people like you attempted to show that their enemies could get gunpowder, I SHOWED THEM THAT IS STUPID since a very big chunk of their enemies cannot use, understand, or reasonably have access to gunpowder, and so their broad-stroke-fixes-all reasoning was dumb on its face. A party of PC monster hunters logically will NEVER have an enemy that uses gunpowder, without blatant DM shenanigans.I specifically used the barbaric and savage language explicitly to denote that said orcs and goblins are barbarians and savages, not that 'oh we misunderstood their culture, they are actually extremely advanced, we are so sorry for misjudging you.' i.e. you're warping the scenario.Hey, look at the default orcs and goblins. They have crap for crafting skills and technology. My example was ON POINT, thank you for not twisting it to suit yourself.The idea that their whole society will then be able to promptly make, trade, or steal the gunpowder, when the PC's can barely get ahold of it, and overnight they all have keggers of boom makes no logical sense, either. Sure, in a couple generations they might have an alternative. But gunpowder weapons don't spread everywhere that fast, especially to your hated enemies. Your solution of 'PC's have it now, monsters have it next adventure', is dumb on its face.You topped off your arguments with 'dangerous gunpowder' examples and high level retaliation that could apply equally to any spellcaster blowing things up, meaning they aren't examples at all, they are knee-jerk responses that will be seen as the responses of a jerk, and Fiat Hand of God coming down to say, No, no, no unlimited gunpowder, I goofed, mm-k?So, sorry, I missed my foot every time. But by the way you're dancing around and continually changing the facts to suit you, I suspect I hit yours several times.Unlimited gunpowder can, will, and has permanently changed the flavor of campaigns. It changed the way the world made war. So, in the end, if you introduce it, you are changing the very nature of a campaign, because of the power it has and holds. We only have to look at history to know the truth of that.Players are not dumb, and will find ways to exploit it. It's VERY exploitable. It changed the world! Some might choose to let it ride, but others... well, it's the table you're at, I suppose.There's a funny rule in GURPS Fantasy's main world where the spellcasters there actively and viciously hunt down anyone using gunpowder weapons simply because of the threat it offers. I thought that both funny and appropriate.</blockquote>

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