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<blockquote data-quote="Primitive Screwhead" data-source="post: 5204858" data-attributes="member: 20805">Are we talking early fire-arms, share the battle-field with swords, sabres, and pikes and made pre-industrialized factory standards.....? If so:&nbsp; I think a reskin of the crossbows would work with a few tweaks:&nbsp;&nbsp; Guns attack FORT instead of AC, crit on a 19 or 20 and are vicious weapons.&nbsp;&nbsp; I hear ya saying &quot;doesn't he mean REF?&quot;&nbsp; Nope. THat was my initial thought but then I thought that old-days gun fire is more about getting hit where it hurts than it is just getting hit. We aren't talking state of the art rifled weapons here, but smooth-bore black powder weapons firing sub-sonic, clunky projectiles that tear chunks of flesh out of the target.&nbsp; As to the accuracy thing, I think a negative proficiency modifier would be appropriate to apply to black-powder smooth-bores.&nbsp; And while we are at it, critical fumble with a black-powder should have consequences.&nbsp;End result: relatively cheap weapons that are 'magic' without actually being {and costing} that +1 bonus cost. They are significantly different from cross-bows and only take a couple pencil marks on the power cards to use.&nbsp; As they retain the 'load minor', Bows are still viable and can be more lethal in trained hands. The Gun, however, is the great equalizer as a common peasant can take out an armored knight with one.Of course.. if you are talking post industrialized, rifled, shaped bullets, etc... thats a different story. But not by much. &nbsp; I think I would stick to using the Crossbow as the base, add a third range increment, remove any negative proficiency modifiers, and remove the critical fumble option. Still crit on 19 to 20 and viscious.&nbsp;Cause the thing with bullets is that some will simply rip right through soft tissue and cause minimal damage.. while another will richochet off a bone and take a destructive trip through the targets vitals...But I agree with Morrus.. bullets really are not any more, or less, deadly than a crossbow bolt... just different.....&nbsp;&nbsp; ...&nbsp; at least until you start getting into the age of precision turned steel and cartridges.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Primitive Screwhead, post: 5204858, member: 20805"] Are we talking early fire-arms, share the battle-field with swords, sabres, and pikes and made pre-industrialized factory standards.....? If so: I think a reskin of the crossbows would work with a few tweaks: Guns attack FORT instead of AC, crit on a 19 or 20 and are vicious weapons. I hear ya saying "[i]doesn't he mean REF?[/i]" Nope. THat was my initial thought but then I thought that old-days gun fire is more about getting hit where it hurts than it is just getting hit. We aren't talking state of the art rifled weapons here, but smooth-bore black powder weapons firing sub-sonic, clunky projectiles that tear chunks of flesh out of the target. As to the accuracy thing, I think a [i]negative[/i] proficiency modifier would be appropriate to apply to black-powder smooth-bores. And while we are at it, critical fumble with a black-powder should have consequences. End result: relatively cheap weapons that are 'magic' without actually being {and costing} that +1 bonus cost. They are significantly different from cross-bows and only take a couple pencil marks on the power cards to use. As they retain the 'load minor', Bows are still viable and can be more lethal in trained hands. The Gun, however, is the great equalizer as a common peasant can take out an armored knight with one. Of course.. if you are talking post industrialized, rifled, shaped bullets, etc... thats a different story. But not by much. I think I would stick to using the Crossbow as the base, add a third range increment, remove any negative proficiency modifiers, and remove the critical fumble option. Still crit on 19 to 20 and viscious. Cause the thing with bullets is that some will simply rip right through soft tissue and cause minimal damage.. while another will richochet off a bone and take a destructive trip through the targets vitals... But I agree with Morrus.. bullets really are not any more, or less, deadly than a crossbow bolt... just different..... ... at least until you start getting into the age of precision turned steel and cartridges. [/QUOTE]

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