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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
New Archer PrC presented for comments.
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<blockquote data-quote="IndyPendant" data-source="post: 741536" data-attributes="member: 8738"><p><strong>Re: Couple Points</strong></p><p></p><p><em>This class seemed like a non-magic version of arcane archer (which granted you stated you wanted to make), which totally negates the arcane archer. Part of the prestige of AA is that you MUST be able to cast some spells, hence your arrows are automatically magical. Youve taken away the restriction, but kept the benefit.</em></p><p></p><p>The restriction/benefit thing is partly intentional. I dislike the requirement of magic use of the AA; it 'dilutes' the combat ability in my mind. I disagree though that it totally negates the AA; one thing a *lot* of players like is flash. My Archer doesn't have flash; the AA has tons of it. The AA should still appeal to a lot of players; I just wanted to offer an alternate.</p><p></p><p><em>Ranged BAB is interesting, but possibly irksome. Cleric BAB is +7 at level 10, so their BAB is 3 higher. Since you are giving d8 HD, why not give fighter BAB?</em></p><p></p><p>I don't quite follow what you are saying here, but what I wanted to emphasize was the PrC's ability with ranged while sacrificing somewhat melee. Giving the Archer a blanket Fighter BAB doesn't differentiate enough between Melee and Ranged in my mind--and I don't think it would be that hard to keep track of, considering that people must also keep track of things like stat mods (Dex or Str) for attacks.</p><p></p><p><em>...Greater Improved Ranged is too powerful. First it negates something you gained 4 levels ago (the limit on feats and sneak attack being used at literally point-blank shot), and second it has no limits on the 10ft reach. I will quote the Silver Marches' Peerless Archer with their version of archer reach:</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>"Threaten- At 8th level a peerless archer gains the ability to threaten nearby areas with her bow as if she were wielding a melee weapon when wearing light armor or no armor. She loses this special ability when fighting in medium or heavy armor. Her bow functions as a reach weapon, threatening anything 10ft away ** but not immediately adjacent to her **. Any attacks of opportunity she receives because she threatens nearby areas are normal ranged attacks and these count against her maximum number of attacks of opportunity per round."</em></p><p></p><p>Actually, I can see how it might be too powerful, and I must admit I have never seen this Peerless Archer. In retrospect, I may edit that down a bit; I like the 'beyond-30-feet' limitation enough to keep it permanently. I think I may add the 'Light/No Armour' restriction to that base ability too. Thanks for that. : )</p><p></p><p><em>[I added Point blank shot because it is a prerequisite for Precise Shot. Additionally I would like to note that your prereqs are gunning for someone with a fighter BAB, what with a level 6 BAB restriction and a level 6 skill restriction)]</em></p><p></p><p>Actually, sort of yes. I wanted a Fighter to be able to get this PrC at 6th or 7th level. However, I decided on BAB 6 so that a Cleric for example could get it at a similar level--8th; if I had increased the BAB to 7, the Cleric would have had to wait till 10th. I may bump up the Craft skill to 10 ranks; I'll think on that...</p><p></p><p><em>[I changed the BAB to fighter. This renders the "Ranged BAB" ability unnecessary and seems right with what you are going for. I also got rid of the good fort, they are lightly armored archers, nothing about them suggests hardiness or "great fortitude". Your skill list is obviously weighted towards perception and stealth.]</em></p><p></p><p>Said above why I wanted Cleric BAB base, though I like your comments on Fort save. I'll likely include them.</p><p></p><p><em>[The prereqs should make sure that someone going for this class has the appropriate weapon(s) at her disposal. Becoming a better ranged specialist doesnt mean you know how all ranged weapons work. Most prcs are going towards this method lately, where you dont actually gain any prof unless it is intrinsic to the prc.]</em></p><p></p><p>Good point; done.</p><p></p><p><em>Bonus Feat List: Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Far Shot, Rapid Shot, Dodge, Mobility, Ranged Expertise*, Improved Initiative, Run, Skill Focus (any skill on class skill list), Alertness. Others may be added at DMs discretion.]</em></p><p></p><p>I dislike the bonus feat route; makes the Archer too similar to a Fighter, and I did want it different.</p><p></p><p><em>Finally I would direct you to check out Peerless Archer (FR Silver Marches) if you haven't already. It seems to be the class you want (sans magic arrows).</em></p><p></p><p>Never heard of it before now. I will definitely look it up, thanks. However, I don't know that I will get rid of the Magical Arrow Bonuses; I really like them, and they just make sense to me as a good bonus for the Archer. Though I may rename it to something 'Bullseye'ish; maybe Sharpshooter?</p><p></p><p>Good advice all around. I won't take all of it (of course: )--but I will definitely take some of it. Thanks much!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="IndyPendant, post: 741536, member: 8738"] [b]Re: Couple Points[/b] [I]This class seemed like a non-magic version of arcane archer (which granted you stated you wanted to make), which totally negates the arcane archer. Part of the prestige of AA is that you MUST be able to cast some spells, hence your arrows are automatically magical. Youve taken away the restriction, but kept the benefit.[/I] The restriction/benefit thing is partly intentional. I dislike the requirement of magic use of the AA; it 'dilutes' the combat ability in my mind. I disagree though that it totally negates the AA; one thing a *lot* of players like is flash. My Archer doesn't have flash; the AA has tons of it. The AA should still appeal to a lot of players; I just wanted to offer an alternate. [I]Ranged BAB is interesting, but possibly irksome. Cleric BAB is +7 at level 10, so their BAB is 3 higher. Since you are giving d8 HD, why not give fighter BAB?[/I] I don't quite follow what you are saying here, but what I wanted to emphasize was the PrC's ability with ranged while sacrificing somewhat melee. Giving the Archer a blanket Fighter BAB doesn't differentiate enough between Melee and Ranged in my mind--and I don't think it would be that hard to keep track of, considering that people must also keep track of things like stat mods (Dex or Str) for attacks. [I]...Greater Improved Ranged is too powerful. First it negates something you gained 4 levels ago (the limit on feats and sneak attack being used at literally point-blank shot), and second it has no limits on the 10ft reach. I will quote the Silver Marches' Peerless Archer with their version of archer reach: "Threaten- At 8th level a peerless archer gains the ability to threaten nearby areas with her bow as if she were wielding a melee weapon when wearing light armor or no armor. She loses this special ability when fighting in medium or heavy armor. Her bow functions as a reach weapon, threatening anything 10ft away ** but not immediately adjacent to her **. Any attacks of opportunity she receives because she threatens nearby areas are normal ranged attacks and these count against her maximum number of attacks of opportunity per round."[/I] Actually, I can see how it might be too powerful, and I must admit I have never seen this Peerless Archer. In retrospect, I may edit that down a bit; I like the 'beyond-30-feet' limitation enough to keep it permanently. I think I may add the 'Light/No Armour' restriction to that base ability too. Thanks for that. : ) [I][I added Point blank shot because it is a prerequisite for Precise Shot. Additionally I would like to note that your prereqs are gunning for someone with a fighter BAB, what with a level 6 BAB restriction and a level 6 skill restriction)][/I] Actually, sort of yes. I wanted a Fighter to be able to get this PrC at 6th or 7th level. However, I decided on BAB 6 so that a Cleric for example could get it at a similar level--8th; if I had increased the BAB to 7, the Cleric would have had to wait till 10th. I may bump up the Craft skill to 10 ranks; I'll think on that... [I][I changed the BAB to fighter. This renders the "Ranged BAB" ability unnecessary and seems right with what you are going for. I also got rid of the good fort, they are lightly armored archers, nothing about them suggests hardiness or "great fortitude". Your skill list is obviously weighted towards perception and stealth.][/I] Said above why I wanted Cleric BAB base, though I like your comments on Fort save. I'll likely include them. [I][The prereqs should make sure that someone going for this class has the appropriate weapon(s) at her disposal. Becoming a better ranged specialist doesnt mean you know how all ranged weapons work. Most prcs are going towards this method lately, where you dont actually gain any prof unless it is intrinsic to the prc.][/I] Good point; done. [I]Bonus Feat List: Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Far Shot, Rapid Shot, Dodge, Mobility, Ranged Expertise*, Improved Initiative, Run, Skill Focus (any skill on class skill list), Alertness. Others may be added at DMs discretion.][/I] I dislike the bonus feat route; makes the Archer too similar to a Fighter, and I did want it different. [I]Finally I would direct you to check out Peerless Archer (FR Silver Marches) if you haven't already. It seems to be the class you want (sans magic arrows).[/I] Never heard of it before now. I will definitely look it up, thanks. However, I don't know that I will get rid of the Magical Arrow Bonuses; I really like them, and they just make sense to me as a good bonus for the Archer. Though I may rename it to something 'Bullseye'ish; maybe Sharpshooter? Good advice all around. I won't take all of it (of course: )--but I will definitely take some of it. Thanks much! [/QUOTE]
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