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<blockquote data-quote="Var" data-source="post: 8010169" data-attributes="member: 7022819"><p>PF:KM might only have a quarter to half as many copies sold as DOS:2 but they're not several leagues apart.</p><p>It's a commercial success, at least to Owlcat and did about as good as PoE II (Obsidian didn't think those numbers were a success, guess they made a bigger investment).</p><p></p><p>PF:KM is an old school game in many ways, in particular regarding how much of your time it wastes on just getting around or sitting around idly for the trivial chore that is the necessity of Kingdom management, or walking in between the same locations multiple times which can take ages even after you unlock teleportation. I didn't mind the walking back and forth in between older hubs and newer ones. The Kingdom management was the atrocious part, without a real challenge and only one way to go (the non real way being game over, fun. But to lose the game through mismanagement seemed to require active work towards failure to me.). Sitting around for week after week, babysitting someone so they can can rank up a level seemed pretty pointless.</p><p></p><p>Personally speaking I didn't like the split armor system thing DOS does combined with higher difficulty. The core idea was neat. The execution just lead to a party comp where everyone did one or another, everyone on physical or everyone on magic, not to mention how broken the summoner was (as usual).</p><p>PF:KM is about as bad with how certain things that wouldn't stack in Pathfinder 1 did. And how higher difficulty is just higher +to hit and multipliers on damage/HP. Not for forget about how pretty much all of the dangerous fights past 3rd act target touch AC. So basically everything that isn't an unhittable Dex Tank is worthless on higher difficulty levels on the front lines.</p><p>Or yet another RPG where summons break the game. Which is basically what always happens. Either the AI can't deal with them or they're too powerful with the right build.</p><p></p><p>PoE II has the same problem. Basically unhittable Tanks with more regeneration than expected incoming damage and enough AoE to solo large encounters.</p><p>I really don't like how both PF:KM and PoE acknowledge their game is broken to an extent that it's entirely possible and rewarded with an achievement to play it with a single character and several additional restrictions on top on highest "difficulty level".</p><p>I mean sure, if your system is broken and you know it, might as well give people free reign in absence of the DM who would usually be the guy in charge of handling that. Encouraging the abuse of game systems till they break is only bad design if it's supposedly an immersive RPG. For a combat simulator that's not a problem.</p><p>Keeps some people interested on how to build a Kineticist that can solo the last act or opens up the addition of a dungeon that lets you level to max, doing nothing but combat.</p><p></p><p>However I'd argue that you can do better. If you can manage a game to feel like a DM is present, create combat challenges luck and optimization can't beat and build a core system where AC70 + Mirror images isn't going to end the encounter or flat out not possible. At the same time there shouldn't be a single answer to each problem, you'd want some freedom as a player.</p><p></p><p>What I'd love to see from BG3/Solasta is a game that encourages, enables and rewards just to wing it. BG3 will apparently be built to be enable just playing blind, with passive triggers for ability checks for secret passages etc. From demo gameplay you'll still know you failed something, so if you prefer having a save every 5 minutes you can retry until you pass the check and discover the secret. But the game doesn't hinge on it, you won't have to find everything and opening up different things for each playthrough is going to add replayability - in theory.</p><p>None of DOS, PoE or PF:KM would really let you just play without incentive towards catering to alignment, faction or companion approval. You were inclined to redo your choice until the outcome was beneficial to the path you wanted to proceed on rather than each choice being standalone.</p><p>A big "problem" in PRGs is usually how you'll want to collect your best in slot gear to feel as awesome as possible. BG3 will have (at least partially) handplaced gear, so the usual treasure hunting for the best combination of items ensues. Would be a lot more fun if all the optional areas had (partially) random loot tables, so you never know which place holds which piece of gear for which playthrough. The stuff along the main story path should probably still be streamlined to ensure a basic power level boost across all classes.</p><p>That hinges on how level progression works as well, if you're supposed to skip whole areas, how does the missed XP impact that playthrough? Should there be milestones for each act to make sure you're not over or underleveled? Does your environment level with you (plsno, but eh)? How is difficulty gonna look for easy vs hard at the same location? I'm seriously hoping it's going to be some sort of CR related scaling rather than just buffing and nerfing HP/Damage. Ofc with adjustments from the devs to compensate for the faults of CR as a metric.</p><p></p><p>Either way I'm looking forward to the news this weekend.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Var, post: 8010169, member: 7022819"] PF:KM might only have a quarter to half as many copies sold as DOS:2 but they're not several leagues apart. It's a commercial success, at least to Owlcat and did about as good as PoE II (Obsidian didn't think those numbers were a success, guess they made a bigger investment). PF:KM is an old school game in many ways, in particular regarding how much of your time it wastes on just getting around or sitting around idly for the trivial chore that is the necessity of Kingdom management, or walking in between the same locations multiple times which can take ages even after you unlock teleportation. I didn't mind the walking back and forth in between older hubs and newer ones. The Kingdom management was the atrocious part, without a real challenge and only one way to go (the non real way being game over, fun. But to lose the game through mismanagement seemed to require active work towards failure to me.). Sitting around for week after week, babysitting someone so they can can rank up a level seemed pretty pointless. Personally speaking I didn't like the split armor system thing DOS does combined with higher difficulty. The core idea was neat. The execution just lead to a party comp where everyone did one or another, everyone on physical or everyone on magic, not to mention how broken the summoner was (as usual). PF:KM is about as bad with how certain things that wouldn't stack in Pathfinder 1 did. And how higher difficulty is just higher +to hit and multipliers on damage/HP. Not for forget about how pretty much all of the dangerous fights past 3rd act target touch AC. So basically everything that isn't an unhittable Dex Tank is worthless on higher difficulty levels on the front lines. Or yet another RPG where summons break the game. Which is basically what always happens. Either the AI can't deal with them or they're too powerful with the right build. PoE II has the same problem. Basically unhittable Tanks with more regeneration than expected incoming damage and enough AoE to solo large encounters. I really don't like how both PF:KM and PoE acknowledge their game is broken to an extent that it's entirely possible and rewarded with an achievement to play it with a single character and several additional restrictions on top on highest "difficulty level". I mean sure, if your system is broken and you know it, might as well give people free reign in absence of the DM who would usually be the guy in charge of handling that. Encouraging the abuse of game systems till they break is only bad design if it's supposedly an immersive RPG. For a combat simulator that's not a problem. Keeps some people interested on how to build a Kineticist that can solo the last act or opens up the addition of a dungeon that lets you level to max, doing nothing but combat. However I'd argue that you can do better. If you can manage a game to feel like a DM is present, create combat challenges luck and optimization can't beat and build a core system where AC70 + Mirror images isn't going to end the encounter or flat out not possible. At the same time there shouldn't be a single answer to each problem, you'd want some freedom as a player. What I'd love to see from BG3/Solasta is a game that encourages, enables and rewards just to wing it. BG3 will apparently be built to be enable just playing blind, with passive triggers for ability checks for secret passages etc. From demo gameplay you'll still know you failed something, so if you prefer having a save every 5 minutes you can retry until you pass the check and discover the secret. But the game doesn't hinge on it, you won't have to find everything and opening up different things for each playthrough is going to add replayability - in theory. None of DOS, PoE or PF:KM would really let you just play without incentive towards catering to alignment, faction or companion approval. You were inclined to redo your choice until the outcome was beneficial to the path you wanted to proceed on rather than each choice being standalone. A big "problem" in PRGs is usually how you'll want to collect your best in slot gear to feel as awesome as possible. BG3 will have (at least partially) handplaced gear, so the usual treasure hunting for the best combination of items ensues. Would be a lot more fun if all the optional areas had (partially) random loot tables, so you never know which place holds which piece of gear for which playthrough. The stuff along the main story path should probably still be streamlined to ensure a basic power level boost across all classes. That hinges on how level progression works as well, if you're supposed to skip whole areas, how does the missed XP impact that playthrough? Should there be milestones for each act to make sure you're not over or underleveled? Does your environment level with you (plsno, but eh)? How is difficulty gonna look for easy vs hard at the same location? I'm seriously hoping it's going to be some sort of CR related scaling rather than just buffing and nerfing HP/Damage. Ofc with adjustments from the devs to compensate for the faults of CR as a metric. Either way I'm looking forward to the news this weekend. [/QUOTE]
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