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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jonrog1" data-source="post: 789888" data-attributes="member: 189">I get the alternatives there, Dismas, but I just ran into the same thing.  You shouldn't need special training in unarmed fighting to knock a guy out.  The strongest guy in the world, with a +4 strength mod but only doing 1d3 damage, couldn't knock the average joe into unconsciousness?  That's what the system gives us, but I;m failry sure the strongest guy in the world hits me two or three times, I'm done.Two drunks fight, they wear each other down, eventually one goes down from the combo of battering and exhaustion.  It's not "one lucky punch."I love the system, but the "wearing a guy down" thing is the only piece that's missing for me.  A combination of MDT and subdual could work perhaps. I know one could say that what I'm talking about is the -4/lethal damage effect, but on the other hand, wearing a guy down and eventually knocking him out is a far cry from beating a man to death -- which is what HP represent.</blockquote>