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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8095535" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Are we not going to count the fact that the Wizard has more spells known than the sorcerer to begin with? I mean, by 5th level a Wizard knows 14 spells with zero "found" spells added... and likely can prepare eight to nine of them, while also having access to rituals which are likely at least another two or three spells, so the Wizard would have immediate (or within 10 minutes) access to about twelve spells. Compared to the Sorcerer's 6. And yes, now a sorcerer can sleep for eight hours and gain access to spell #7, by losing access to spell #5. And spell #7 could be any spell. Any spell at all, as long as it is on the sorcerer list. And the wizard can still find a spell, and if it matches their school they can spend an hour and 25 gp per level to get it in their book. Having now access to 15 different spells. (I'm not counting the "take a long rest and prepare the spells" part since it is assumed by the sorcerer getting a long rest)So, at what point does getting spell #7 or 8 match the Wizard who has twice the options at any given time, from a larger and more powerful list of spells?And in practice, Sorcerers have so few spells known, and many choose only the best possible spells, that it is an incredibly hard decision to figure out which one spell to drop for another. The reason why wizards and other casters only change a few spells, is because their core spells are too good to replace. Sorcerers have nothing but those spells, so the circumstances of them replacing any of them, let alone all of them, are ludicrously small.Exactly. A power gamer is going to be doing well regardless, they will have the perfect spell list, and a combo planned for it. They aren't who this rule is meant to help. You know what I truly and dearly hope happens? I hope to see a Sorcerer swap out Phantasmal Force or Hold Person for Detect Magic. Not because that is an OP spell that will perfectly encapusulate yadda yadda yadda, but because that is a spell I have never once seen a Sorcerer use, but that I think they should have. And they don't use it, because it is a terrible spell for a sorcerer to learn, I mean, as one of your two spells at 1st level, it certainly isn't topping any lists. But, it would be fun for them to be able to use detect magic while in the city on downtime. And not feel like they have ruined their character forever. A very good way of keeping track of it.And sorcerers lost theirs at the end of 3.5. But, you are also wrong about Ritual Caster. After all, Leomund's Tiny hut may be a ritual spell, but Aganazzar's scorcher isn't. neither is Bigby's Hand. Demiplane, Animate Dead, Glyph of Warding. I'm sure we could go on, but a Sorcerer (base class) does not have access to a lot of the wizard list, even if they do end up using their feat to take ritual caster.</blockquote>

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