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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8097092" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>You seem to have missed my point. </p><p></p><p>Level 1 sorcerer will get this ability. Multi-class into a level 1 sorcerer as a wizard, then you get this rule. And it works for all of your potential spells. </p><p></p><p>But, it wasn't a major point.</p><p></p><p></p><p>3</p><p></p><p>And your opinion that they could have done something you liked better has nothing to do with the points I made. I never said "And WoTC had zero other options than the one they took" </p><p></p><p>So, you are throwing in a point that has nothing to do with the points I was making. Could they have done something different? Obviously yes. They could potentially do a lot of thing. We are talking about what they did do though.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Except that this rule is specifically rebuilding the characters spell list. </p><p></p><p>So, you took characters that have never changed, and a perfect information scenario, and let them rebuild the character's spell list. Taking out spells they know won't be used, because they have used these characters unchanged for years, and replacing them. </p><p></p><p>Again. It is obvious why this was more powerful. This is the perfect storm of options for this feature.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, this is not my experience. In fact, I've never seen any player ever use Contact Other Plane. </p><p></p><p>My players never know the exact number of opponents they will face. They may know an approximate, if it is an enemy that they were tracking, but more often than not they go in knowing no more than their quest. </p><p></p><p>Your experience is not universal. Not even close.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That green, bolded part is the biggest indication of what I'm talking about. </p><p></p><p>Hold Person is an amazing spell... but it only works on humanoids. And See Invisibility is only needed if someone encounters an invisible enemy. </p><p></p><p>So, your player knew that there were not any humanoid enemies they would want to use Hold Person on, but they knew that there was an invisible enemy they would need to see. </p><p></p><p>I also see a lot of spells they had (which were pre-selected) which were pretty rough to have by this point. Darkvision is likely no longer needed, Charm Person is generally a bad spell, changing for Silent Image, that is very powerful </p><p></p><p>So... yes. They made some swaps that were clearly because they knew exactly what was coming, and others because the basic spells provided were not good spells in general.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8097092, member: 6801228"] You seem to have missed my point. Level 1 sorcerer will get this ability. Multi-class into a level 1 sorcerer as a wizard, then you get this rule. And it works for all of your potential spells. But, it wasn't a major point. 3 And your opinion that they could have done something you liked better has nothing to do with the points I made. I never said "And WoTC had zero other options than the one they took" So, you are throwing in a point that has nothing to do with the points I was making. Could they have done something different? Obviously yes. They could potentially do a lot of thing. We are talking about what they did do though. Except that this rule is specifically rebuilding the characters spell list. So, you took characters that have never changed, and a perfect information scenario, and let them rebuild the character's spell list. Taking out spells they know won't be used, because they have used these characters unchanged for years, and replacing them. Again. It is obvious why this was more powerful. This is the perfect storm of options for this feature. Yeah, this is not my experience. In fact, I've never seen any player ever use Contact Other Plane. My players never know the exact number of opponents they will face. They may know an approximate, if it is an enemy that they were tracking, but more often than not they go in knowing no more than their quest. Your experience is not universal. Not even close. That green, bolded part is the biggest indication of what I'm talking about. Hold Person is an amazing spell... but it only works on humanoids. And See Invisibility is only needed if someone encounters an invisible enemy. So, your player knew that there were not any humanoid enemies they would want to use Hold Person on, but they knew that there was an invisible enemy they would need to see. I also see a lot of spells they had (which were pre-selected) which were pretty rough to have by this point. Darkvision is likely no longer needed, Charm Person is generally a bad spell, changing for Silent Image, that is very powerful So... yes. They made some swaps that were clearly because they knew exactly what was coming, and others because the basic spells provided were not good spells in general. [/QUOTE]
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