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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Helldritch" data-source="post: 8097845" data-attributes="member: 6855114">Familliar? Why would I want to see through its eyes? Go scout you little rat...Never heard about team work?Never heard about team work?Houuuuu never heard about wish?But they will still know about non dead inhabitants. They will still know about the lay out. They'll get you enough info to go on.Phhh.. limited wish, lore bard secrets... so many options you don't seem to know or simply ignore to get the last word....You obviously never played high level.Scouting isn't killing. Scrying the scout is also important to bring him/her (in both of my groups for now) back. A 20th level rogue is around +17 on the sneak. With elven boots, were talking about +22. But a fight alone is not a good thing.Also, planning man, planning.Vitaly key area will probably be already covered against intrusion. Yes the poison thing might work with evil  PCs, which I never allow. The more you do in a scouting mission, the more your chances to screw something and reveal that you are about to assault.Of course he was. Before the new rule that is. Now the Sorcerer and the bard are good enough to do it better and faster. That's what our little test revealed. I think you need to read the thread again because you're forgetting key elements here. Unless you're doing this on purpose?Of course! And wish is pretty standard choice don't you think? Again, high level play means that there are many solutions. The wizard might not have the spell but the sorcerer will and so will the warlock and the bard if needed now.Make sarcasm all you want, a whole spell list (and maybe two) is way better than 44 spells known. The entire list is just a nap away.I already gave you zounds of ways. There are more ways to do the things I have shown you. The two casters combo was previously done with the wizard but could be done with a bard or a sorcerer from the beginning (albeit at slower pace before the new rule). But a rogue could do it too. A friendly mouse could be the focus of a scry spell while an other caster would simply concentrate on an improved invisibilty (or on the rogue for that matter). The ways to get information are numerous. But the adapatability was not always there. Now with the new rule, only the wizard will lack the necessary spells to help in an adventure because all the others have access to all their spell list.Edit: for some reason I wrote limited wish when I intended to write wish...PS: Scry is also a clerical spell.PPS: The goal was not to show that it was easy to get information. It was to show that with this info, the sorcerer will change his spells in a pinch before going to do the actual mission/adventure. The wizard, if he took all these wonderful spells, will not have other spell to change from unless he was lucky enough to find scrolls. The spells that the wizard will have taken will be permanent fixture unlike the sorcerer's spell which can be changed for better and more adapted ones for the task at hand.</blockquote>

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