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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Merlion" data-source="post: 871868" data-attributes="member: 10397">Ok this is much more constructive <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile    :-)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" />I am not sure exactly when I am going to playtest it will probably be a couple of weeks or so. And I will probably do a little more refining of certain points before we move on to that. So I am putting my stuff here to try and get a broad range of opnions and advice and ideas. Now to address what your saying specficaly: Well Divine magic of course has its own table in the DMG, and when designing more new Mystic spells I will probably be using both. I DO ignore some current spells. I usualy disregard those I feel are drasticaly underpowered and/or dont relate much to what I am doing as I see it. Now your right about the Cleric being the most powerful class in the game (and I wonder how you feel about that given your focus on balance), but while the Cleric is a big source of material for my Mystic especialy in spell list terms theirs a lot of big differences. the Mystic doesnt get the Clerics inherent combat abilities (Armor, BAB, HD) and they lose a lot of the more combat enhancing related spells( Divine Power, Righteous Might, Divine Favor etc), but they get somewhat better attack spells usualy with a narrow range, and more utility spells. Actualy Augment Ray would seem underpowered to me since their are only a handful of core ray spells and none of them deal damage...so it basicaly gives you the same bonus as Weapon Focus(Rays). and if you want to increase the DC for the saves of the best of the ray spells, Disintegrate, you've got Spell Focus (Transmutation). Now where I'm going with this is many "magical aproachs" already have a lot of feat support, especialy those involving targeting spells and damage spells. Evocation, Transmutation and Enchantment all benefit enourmously from Spell Focus(and Greater Spell Focus). Damage spells of all sorts benefit from spells such as Empower and Maximize spell. Even protective spells can benefit a lot from Extend Spell(and Persistent Spell). However the Summoning aproach has little support. Yes Extend can increase the duration and Empower/Maximize can increase the number of lesser creatures you can summon...but thats really not much of a benefit. Augment Summoning would be pretty good if you can take it at first level. and the whole deal would be good if their were multiple summoning enhancement feats. and remember it does NOT add an extra Hit Die as you say it adds 1 hit point per hit die, and +1 attack and damage. Now at 1st up through third level or so this would be decent. but you cant take it until 3rd level. and by 7th level or so its almost useless...the +1 attack and damage is essentialy meaningless...and the hit points are not that great especialy with the so so creatures you can summon with standard summoning. Now how would you feel if my Augmented Summoning was the same as Augment Summoning, but attainble at 1st level, and the others the same(a logical extension chain with each previous as a prerequisite?) Here I think our difference in aproach comes in. For me the most important factor overall, generaly, in most choices and especialy choice of class, is flavour and character concept. now obviously theirs some overlap here. But take the standard wizard and Sorcerer. Given the Sorcerers spell list and casting method/spells per day, is their any reason to play any sort of specialist wizard? You can just play a Sorcerer and pick mostly spells from that school and take Spell Focus, and you'll be able to cast more of them per day, without having to prepare them.  I'm not sure what you mean about the Transmuter and buffs. Wizards dont really get many buffs...the basic Ability Score increasers(which all spellcasters get at least some of...including the Druid IMC)...Haste(which the Mystic doesnt get)...Keen Edge...etc. Now of course the Mystic gets some Cleric-y buffs but of course they are focused mainly on healing defense and divination. What buffs do you think are excessive? I also made a point of giving them minimal form changing, and only self-changing...they get Polymorph Self(as a 5th level spell) and Shapechange. I intentionaly left out Polymorph Other and Poly Any Object. And I bumped the teleportation up a level. Hmm...I might consider making Rope Trick 3rd level tho it can be abused pretty well... I think this is another major source of our miscommunication. Yes, I am blurring the lines. Its quite intentional. I dont "need" all those spellcasters. I WANT all those spellcasters. I dont feel that theirs just 2 magical roles that need filling. Because beside magical effect, their is also magical aproach. Now let me clarify something...I try to use the mechanics of this game to reflect fantasy litertaure and mythology(or at least my favorites there of <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile    :-)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" /> and in most such stories, magic is magic. Different types of magic have a lot to do with aproach and somewhat to do with effect. Theirs certain things almost anyone who can use magic can do to a lesser or greater extent. Attack, defend, heal. their are eceptions to this of course but its sort of what I'm going with. Any magical type can do just about anything IMC but some are better at some things than others. Wizards and Sorcerers are best by far at offense especialy damaging offense(as oposed to insta death etc) and probably roughly tied with Druids for mastery of Elemental Magic. Mystics and Druids are best at healing, and Mystics are the masters of Defense. They can all do some of everything but the difference and the interest comes in aproach and execution. Wizards and Sorcerers are much the same as in standard...Wizards the tomes and learned magic, Sorcerers inborn/bloodline based, the Mystic with their medititation and observation(in aproach I see them as a bit like the magical equivalant of the Monk) and Druids drawing power from life and nature. When Arcana Unearthed comes out if this campaign gets off the ground and is still running I will probably be implementing a lot of its mechanics especialy as far as magic...unified spell list etc. What I am doing is sort of a DnD version of that. So I have no desire to delete any of the other spellcasting classes. the Cleric was the only one that didnt fit into my world...plus I feel that the standard DnD Cleric is overpowered and since what little of the concept I like can be emulated by the Mystic(or in truth, anyone) their was no reason to go to the trouble of revising it. However, your ideas would work well if I was going for something like you describe...something more minimalist. They'd be perfect if you wanted to just tweak basic DnD a little and narrow the focus of the magic users..but my goal is to broaden both focus and aproach. I'm not sure I entirly understand what your describing. are you saying remove a lot of spells from the base spell list and make them avaible only via the spheres? Thats a good idea although it would require a pretty massive overhaul. Also as I said I like most of whats in the spell list and want all Mystics to have access to most of it, for instance your example of having to have the Life sphere to cast healing spells...healing spells are one of the main focuses of the class, in any form. However as you say it would be useful for some spells I might want to create to have them avaible only via the spheres and not on the standard list. I will definitly keep that in mind. I do want to try and preserve a specialzation mechanic as oposed to a cleric-like automatic "domain" sort of thing. I have always liked the idea of spellcasters focusing specialy on a certain type of magic. However this is an area that may well need work, and I may end up implementing a system more simliar to domains so I would like more detail and clarification of your ideas. This is very true. Havent even come up with the 20th level abilities for the other classes(well, the Monk's is built in...incdentaly what do you think of renaming the Monk the Adept(no aept NPC class IMC). I just kind of figure that a character should get something pretty big for finishing out the standard progression <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile    :-)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" /></blockquote>

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