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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Magic Missile" data-source="post: 420078" data-attributes="member: 7916">Hello everyone. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile    :-)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" />I'm planning on running a campaign based loosely on the computer game Thief: The Dark Project.Basically, the players will all start out as human rogues (demihumans/monsters are very rare in this setting) and advance a few levels before being recruited by the shadowy organisation known as the Keepers.I am planning to start out the characters as slightly altered Guild Thieves from the FRCS as a standard class, then multiclass then into a new PrC - the Keepers. So I would appreciate any imput/suggestions for the two classes I have posted below.Keep in mind that, because everyone in the campaign will be taking exactly the same class or combination of these two classes, and not any of the others, it doesn't really matter if they're balanced compared to, say, the Fighter or Wizard. I'm just after comments, opinions, criticism and even sugestions for new abilities. Please be understanding, this is completely new ground for me...Guild Thief: BAB, Saves etc. as RogueSpecial Abilities at each level:1.) Sneak attack +d6, doublespeak (+4 Innuendo checks against members of the Thieves Guild)2.) Evasion, Bonus Feat3.) Sneak Attack +d6, Uncanny Dodge4.) Bonus Feat5.) Sneak Attack +d6, Defensive Roll6.) Uncanny Dodge, Bonus FeatKeeper: BAB, Saves etc. as RogueSpecial Abilities at each level:1.) Move without Trace, Glyphlore (+4 on all checks regarding glyphs), Keeper Lore (identical to Bardic Knowledge ability)2.) Hide in Plain Sight, Low Light Vision, access to use Magic Device skill*3.) Uncanny Dodge, Slowfall 20ft4.) Evasion, Darkvision 5ft, access to Spellcraft skill*5.) Slowfall 30ft, Skill Mastery6.) Uncanny Dodge, Darkvision 10ft*use Magic Device and Spellcraft skills are exclusive Keeper skills, to represent the low-magic setting of the campaing world.I'm hoping that players will then choose whether to add Keeper levels to gain the mystical special abilities and magic-related skills, or carry on pursuing the Guild Thief class for the sneak attack and feats, or even a little bit of both.Oh, and another thing: my new rule for knocking people out. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile    :-)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" />At the moment, to K.O. someone you need to do subdual damage equal to their current hp. But I want a mechanic where a low level rogue can knock a guard unconscious with a single swift blow from a sap, just like in Thief: The Dark Project. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile    :-)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" />It's very hard for a level 1 Rogue to do 12-14 subdual damage (typical hp for level 1 fighter) in a single attack, even with the +d6 sneak attack. So here's an alternative, based very loosely on the Garotte rules in Song & Silence:To K.O. an opponent, you must have a subdual damage weapon (normal weapons can be used subdually at -4 attack). Roll a touch attack to hit the target's head; their touch AC is at +2 or more if they have some kind of protective headwear. If the opponent is aware of your presence, this also provokes an AoO; if you take damage from this your attempt to K.O. fails.Assuming you hit with the touch attack, roll subdual damage (plus any applicable sneak attack) normally. If you inflict subdual damage equal to or greater than *half* of the target's current hp, he falls unconscious.It is much easier for a level 1 Rogue to do 6-7hp of damage, and so they can K.O. guards fairly easily if they are unaware of their presence.Again, opinions/criticisms welcome.Wow, sorry this is such a big post, it seemed so much smaller in my head... :-/</blockquote>

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