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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Magic Missile" data-source="post: 421185" data-attributes="member: 7916">Re: KOThanks for the feedback everyone. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile    :-)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" />It's a good idea, but there's still the problem of how a level 1 Rogue is going to do approx. 14 damage (average CON for Fighter1) with a sap... even with a sneak attack and a STR bonus of +2, you still need to roll double 6 to do 14 damage... I want Rogue1's to be able to KO unaware guards with relative ease... would it be a better rule if I *only* allow it to be used with a blackjack/sap? I want to recreate the situation in the computer game where a single well placed blow will KO a guard, but only if he's unaware of your presence and isn't expecting it...Oh, and yes, I was planning on implementing the Thief: TDP magic arrows. :-D At the moment I'm thinking fire arrows do +d6 fire damage with a chance to ignite opponents, water arrows do subdual damage and put out small fires, moss arrows create a 10-15ft patch of moss, giving +2 to move silently, and gas arrows do subdual damage and disperse a could of gas - FORT save DC 18 or fall unconscious...</blockquote>