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<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 6420163" data-attributes="member: 7006">If it was me... I'd probably just rule that any PC can take the Magic Initiate feat for the class they already are in (thereby getting the PC three more cantrips and another 1st level spell.)&nbsp; After all... if there's a cantrip that is on the Wizard list that the Wizard doesn't already have... there's a good chance that it also appears on another class's cantrips list.&nbsp; So by spending a feat, you end up at the very same place-- you get the one, two, or perhaps even all three cantrips that you wanted from the Wizard spell list... you just &quot;multi-class&quot; via feat into another class to get it.At that point... does the fluff of using a feat to minorly &quot;multi-class&quot; really mean so much that you don't just say screw it?&nbsp; If three feats and a 1st level spell aren't game-breaking when taken from another class... why would it be game-breaking to just let it come from the same one?Now sure... the Wizard is in the odd position that their spellcasting ability (INT) is the only class that uses it (of the classes that have their own spell lists that is.)&nbsp; Which pre-supposes that D&amp;D feels Wizards are more powerful than the other classes, because they are the only ones who can't take the Magic Initiate feat and then select spells that require an attack roll or saving throw which get to use their primary ability score.&nbsp; They take the feat and they HAVE to go MAD with combat spells, because there's no other class with a spell list that uses INT.&nbsp; Unlike the other classes which all have other spell lists that can use their primary score (WIS or CHA.)So the real question is... is the Wizard and their spell list actually &quot;balanced&quot; around the idea that they can't get more cantrips that require attacks/saves that use INT?&nbsp; Is that actually a thing?&nbsp; Are we really afraid if the wizard would now able to have 3-5 attack cantrips all using INT?&nbsp; Speaking personally, if it was me... I'd say 'no'.&nbsp; I don't think it truly &quot;unbalances&quot; anything whatsoever.&nbsp; After all... even the Eldritch Knight and the Arcane Trickster can take the Magic Initiate feat and select three more Wizard cantrips to what they already get... and if the EK and AT can have five cantrips all using INT... I don't see the problem with the Wizard being allowed the same thing.&nbsp; And in fact... they should be allowed it even more than the EK and AT should.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 6420163, member: 7006"] If it was me... I'd probably just rule that any PC can take the Magic Initiate feat for the class they already are in (thereby getting the PC three more cantrips and another 1st level spell.) After all... if there's a cantrip that is on the Wizard list that the Wizard doesn't already have... there's a good chance that it also appears on another class's cantrips list. So by spending a feat, you end up at the very same place-- you get the one, two, or perhaps even all three cantrips that you wanted from the Wizard spell list... you just "multi-class" via feat into another class to get it. At that point... does the fluff of using a feat to minorly "multi-class" really mean so much that you don't just say screw it? If three feats and a 1st level spell aren't game-breaking when taken from another class... why would it be game-breaking to just let it come from the same one? Now sure... the Wizard is in the odd position that their spellcasting ability (INT) is the only class that uses it (of the classes that have their own spell lists that is.) Which pre-supposes that D&D feels Wizards are more powerful than the other classes, because they are the only ones who can't take the Magic Initiate feat and then select spells that require an attack roll or saving throw which get to use their primary ability score. They take the feat and they HAVE to go MAD with combat spells, because there's no other class with a spell list that uses INT. Unlike the other classes which all have other spell lists that can use their primary score (WIS or CHA.) So the real question is... is the Wizard and their spell list actually "balanced" around the idea that they can't get more cantrips that require attacks/saves that use INT? Is that actually a thing? Are we really afraid if the wizard would now able to have 3-5 attack cantrips all using INT? Speaking personally, if it was me... I'd say 'no'. I don't think it truly "unbalances" anything whatsoever. After all... even the Eldritch Knight and the Arcane Trickster can take the Magic Initiate feat and select three more Wizard cantrips to what they already get... and if the EK and AT can have five cantrips all using INT... I don't see the problem with the Wizard being allowed the same thing. And in fact... they should be allowed it even more than the EK and AT should. [/QUOTE]

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