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<blockquote data-quote="deleteme123456" data-source="post: 4386391" data-attributes="member: 65832">Perhaps the best indication that this is ridiculous... the hardest things in the game should be level 30 hard DCs. The way the table works that's actually Level 28 and I'm willing to accept that fudge factor.Consider Joe McKlutz, a Cha-based Paladin in plate and a heavy shield with 10 in Dex (started at 8, bumped at 11 and 21). Anything with an armor check penalty is at -4. +14 from half-level is +10. OK, so Joe McKlutz can't quite eke out that 33 DC, but it's awfully close. Consider Joe's cousin, wearing Scale and a Light shield, still with a 10 in Dex. At +14 from half-level, he actually has a 10% chance of making the 33 DC.A Level 28 demigod who started at 18, boosted at every opportunity will wind up at 28, for +9. +5 trained and +14 half-level is +28, needing only 5 (+2 racial needs 3, +skill training or item bonus is auto). &quot;Well, it's really insanely hard, so you only have a 80% chance of making it.&quot; I guess I see &quot;Hard&quot; as something that should be closer to 50% for someone who's barely trying, and expect that if you want to routinely suceed at hard tasks you need skill training or magic items.I tend to agree that removing the footnotes is the real problem. Lowering the DCs across the board needed doing... and a 1st-level DC 20 for Hard is about 55% for the guy who's got +4 ability and +5 trained but no +2 racial... I can live with that, and I would expect PCs to accept that. If skilly McAwesome with that +2 racial takes skill focus, he can get to +14, so he only needs a 6. And he probably won't unless he really plans to be doing hard things all the time.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="deleteme123456, post: 4386391, member: 65832"] Perhaps the best indication that this is ridiculous... the hardest things in the game should be level 30 hard DCs. The way the table works that's actually Level 28 and I'm willing to accept that fudge factor. Consider Joe McKlutz, a Cha-based Paladin in plate and a heavy shield with 10 in Dex (started at 8, bumped at 11 and 21). Anything with an armor check penalty is at -4. +14 from half-level is +10. OK, so Joe McKlutz can't quite eke out that 33 DC, but it's awfully close. Consider Joe's cousin, wearing Scale and a Light shield, still with a 10 in Dex. At +14 from half-level, he actually has a 10% chance of making the 33 DC. A Level 28 demigod who started at 18, boosted at every opportunity will wind up at 28, for +9. +5 trained and +14 half-level is +28, needing only 5 (+2 racial needs 3, +skill training or item bonus is auto). "Well, it's really insanely hard, so you only have a 80% chance of making it." I guess I see "Hard" as something that should be closer to 50% for someone who's barely trying, and expect that if you want to routinely suceed at hard tasks you need skill training or magic items. I tend to agree that removing the footnotes is the real problem. Lowering the DCs across the board needed doing... and a 1st-level DC 20 for Hard is about 55% for the guy who's got +4 ability and +5 trained but no +2 racial... I can live with that, and I would expect PCs to accept that. If skilly McAwesome with that +2 racial takes skill focus, he can get to +14, so he only needs a 6. And he probably won't unless he really plans to be doing hard things all the time. [/QUOTE]

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