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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 3970147" data-attributes="member: 2067">In 4e, "Archon" has absolutely nothing to do with "good outsider." Instead, it means "artificially created elemental-humanoid lifeform." These aren't elemental angels (which, I agree, would be pretty freakin' awesome). They're just elemental-people-golem-warforged guys. They're still pretty cool, but they're not angels.You can buy into the idea that Archons are Warriors from the Mountain of Heaven and Slayers of Demons without having to buy into the Great Wheel, Planescape, or any of that. Like how demons and devils are different variations on fiends (one is a rapacious destroyer, one is a subtle manipulator), perhaps Archons and, say, Devas are different variations on Angels (one is a warrior-caste of aggressive angels, the other is more of the "watcher and protector" type). You don't need any kind of generic or alignment-based angels to keep Archons as Warriors from the Mountain of Heaven.Ever read the Bible? Tongues of flame, halos of light, wheels of fire, creatures with swords coming out of their mouths, four-headed chimerae? This is some of the inspiration for the Archons (the Egyptian deities also figured into it, I'm sure). Guardinals are pretty solidly animistic avatars of good, but Archons have a much stronger tradition of mythic excellence in the various Judeo-Arabic-Christian angelologies. This could have been expanded on, honed tighter, and made more clear, just like the idea of "devils are the corruptors" are being made more clear.Alignment change? No, these are pretty much creatures that have nothing whatsoever to do with any earlier edition's versions of "Archons." Wizards is just guilty (not for the first time) of being boneheaded about name selection. Instead of giving them evocative new names, they had to go and use something with a history already because they couldn't think of anything better. That's kind of sad, but then I'm repeatedly getting the impression that names are just not what this 4e team is good at.Not especially, if  you follow the trail of the word. It means "ruler" in Greek, and was later adopted in certain forms of Judeo-Christian-Arabic angelology with awkward angel titles like "Heirarchies" and "Principalities." At the very least, the "Fire Archon" should probably be the Level 30 Terrasque of the Fire Elemental Monsters, but if the 3e stats are anything to go by, they're low-mid level threats at best. It *sounds* cool, sure, but it doesn't really mesh entirely with "low-level armored fire people." You could make it, but when it already has a strong association with an existing, much-beloved group, why would you want to bother? Either don't use it at all, or make that group worthy of the name (like they made Devils more worthy of the title).Unpronounceable? Like the Ixitxachitl? I oughtta slap you silly for such an absurd hyperbole. If you're more interested in conversation, come on down to the level of rational discussion, and tell me, briefly, how you would pronounce that word?Betcha there's a better than 1-in-20 chance you'll get it close enough to right to not matter."Archon" is almost as hard to pronounce in English as "Chvarog" is (that's ARK-on, for those asking). Did I mention PS anywhere?No, my argument has a lot more to do with the fact that Wizards just quite frequently blows at coming up with names, and that the old concept of Archons was not so goofy as to be un-salvagable if they applied the same logic to this as they did to the rest of the monsters.Obviously, they didn't think it worth their time or effort.Obviously, they need every cool name they can get.Obviously, this leads to descisions that are kind of dunderheaded in my opinion, including "Archons are now artificially created elemental people" and "Dryads are now mini-treants."I would not, necessarily, make the same arguments for the guardinals, or the eladrin, or the Great Wheel, or Sigil, or anything else having to do with the old editions' cosmology.So don't mischaracterize my argument.</blockquote>

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