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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 3972113" data-attributes="member: 2067">That is a gross mischaracterization of at least my opposition to the fire guys being called "archons." The archons were never "animal headed angels" to begin with. This isn't about them killing off my favorite monster or whatever. This is about them using what I see as boneheaded logic to mess with one of the very reasons I play D&D. It ain't for animal-headed angels.Depends on how close you want to take the gnostic association. If the "archons" were general servants of gods (which I'd have no major problem with), you could take that to mean that these gods are really false pretenders. This ties in with 4e's philosophy on gods being killable at epic level: the gods are just very powerful beings, not true personifications of forces. If the "archons" were general enemies of the gods, they would have to work for a pretender. But they don't do that, either. They work for themselves.So good riddance. What about the archon with scrolls for wings, or the archon that wielded a grand trumpet or the archon who judged the guilty and the innocent, or the ones that resembled balls of light straight out of biblical reference? The old archons were mostly a race that resembled semi-biblical angels, and the parallels between them and the devils of the Nine Hells seems intentionally drawn. With the story of the devils being officially "fallen angels" now, those archons are needed now more than ever. This new thing is cool, but it doesn't need to take an inappropriate name to be cool. Halflings are cool and their name sucks in every edition that they weren't called Hobbits in. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />Created by the antithesis of the D&D gods? Really? Because I got the impression that they were created in magical forges by anyone who wanted to. As far as the Primordials bit goes...maybe...but they're not celestial beings, servants, or messengers of the Primordials. They are free-willed, autonomous, and associated with their own actions, not the actions of their creators. They're not from a higher plane or invested with more divine energy. They're on fire....but I'd imagine water archons would be damp and earth archons will be dusty, so it's not really sounding like they're celestial beings at all. Elemental beings. Unless the Primordials are strongly associated with the elements (which is entirely possible, and would be pretty cool), I'd say the association is pretty weak. Still, it could be made stronger....Possibly something I can buy. Possibly they considered what the word meant. Still a little potentially weak, put possibly not as boneheaded as I assumed based on the reasons given in the article.And there's still the niggling detail of "what do you call your good celestial armada?" then. "Angels" would be fine, but then what are your god-servants, if they have a generic name, to be called? A bit of a snowball effect.</blockquote>

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