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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mark_Aurel" data-source="post: 2715770" data-attributes="member: 1725">The original system can certainly be a bit too strict, in that it estimates ECL rather conservatively. The system seems balanced with optimal builds in mind -- which is good from the viewpoint of not allowing overly powerful PCs into a party, but bad from the viewpoint of allowing a player to build a non-optimized monster character and still be able to contribute in a meaningful way to the party.Now, built into the assumed ECL is the assumption that the character comes with the level of gear that a regular PC of that level does. A CR 6 monster won't contribute much to an encounter against an EL 14 challenge -- but on the other hand, if you take a level 14 fighter and strip him of his gear, he'd probably drop quite a bit in terms of what CR he is as well. Now, taking your example at hand -- the now ECL 9 dragon is clearly a rather strong choice for a character. He'll have all good saves, a base attack 1 point higher than a fighter of the same level, superior stats to a human fighter of level 9, and some other perks. Granted, he'll be missing out on a lot of feats, but he'll have secondary abilities like flight, a breath weapon (puny though it may be for a 9th-level character), +9 natural armor, the ability to speak with animals, and some very powerful sensory abilities. Plus, he'll have more and better skills than the fighter. So, with the expected equipment, I'd say the young brass dragon is far and away a better choice powerwise than a level 9 human fighter. Or let's take another example -- the hill giant. It has 12 giant HD (/4, if I read you correctly), and a LA of +4. So you could play it as a 7th-level character. Again, a much superior choice to a 7th-level fighter. Your BAB would beat the 7th-level fighter by +2, and your ability scores in other areas would be far and away extremely superior. +14 Strength? That compensates rather handsomely for the -4 Intelligence and Charisma on its own.Monster levels are clearly worth less than character levels in _most_ cases. With levels in races such as dragon or outsider, it's borderline, though -- and that on the various base bonuses and skill point progressions alone. In other cases, the monster levels aren't so inferior that you can really afford to give characters multiple monster levels per character level and not end up with something that can very easily get abused and broken.I would rather suggest allowing LA to be reduced somewhat for inferior monster/character class combinations (maybe using the UA variant for using XP to reduce LA).</blockquote>

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