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<blockquote data-quote="two" data-source="post: 866541" data-attributes="member: 9002">ok ok sheeshOK ok sheesh.If haste, old school, is, as some maintain, integral to the balance of the game/class of sorc/wiz.&nbsp; Fine.&nbsp; Great.&nbsp; Super?Really, it's a terrible way to balance classes/games.&nbsp; ONE 3rd level spell?Why is this a bad idea, you ask?Because spells are optional.&nbsp; What about the sorcerer that does not take haste -- ever?&nbsp; Is he doomed to sub-optimal combat forever?&nbsp; Why should this choice even be given, if it's so crucial to balance?&nbsp; Why don't the designers, at lthe very east, tell players in the PH:&nbsp; &quot;TAKE HASTE IT IS THE MOST POWERFUL SPELL FOR ITS LEVEL IN THE GAME IF YOU DON'T TAKE IT YOU MIGHT BE VASTLY SUBOPTIMAL IT'S YOUR CHOICE OF COURSE IF YOU WANT TO SUCK BUT THERE YOU GO&quot;Yeah, I know a wizard can wear full plate and wield a net in both hands -- it's a player's choice.&nbsp; But really -- they should 'fess up.&nbsp; Player's Handbook should indicate SOMETHING.The Wizard that specializes and can't take haste at all?&nbsp; Or chooses not to?&nbsp; Suck-central for life?If they really wanted to use a spell to balance things, a 3rd level one at that, they should have made it mandatory or &quot;free&quot; - you always get HASTE as a 3rd level spell, as soon as you are allowed to cast 3rd level spells, no matter what.&nbsp; Or else:&nbsp; you suffer major combat suckiness.Not a good plan. Plus all this is hella boring.&nbsp; Jeez. Battle starts.&nbsp; Cast haste.&nbsp; Battle starts.&nbsp; Cast haste.&nbsp; Battle starts.&nbsp; Did I mention -- cast haste?&nbsp; I still think Druids can rock without Animal Friendship, or Clerics without a 3rd level cure spell.&nbsp; Just use more 2nd level ones.&nbsp; Druids -- wildshape more, etc.Basically, the argument that a spell is required by a class to meet up to some standard of &quot;combat readiness&quot; -- just is a cop out on the part of the designers.&nbsp; Or the players.&nbsp; I don't think it's even true.&nbsp; I've seen a lot of effective wizzies that don't require haste; clerics without FlameStrike, etc.&nbsp; They are just not your plain-jane vanilla PC's.&nbsp; That' s&nbsp; good.I won't convince anyone, I'm sure.That's ok too.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="two, post: 866541, member: 9002"] [b]ok ok sheesh[/b] OK ok sheesh. If haste, old school, is, as some maintain, integral to the balance of the game/class of sorc/wiz. Fine. Great. Super? Really, it's a terrible way to balance classes/games. ONE 3rd level spell? Why is this a bad idea, you ask? Because spells are optional. What about the sorcerer that does not take haste -- ever? Is he doomed to sub-optimal combat forever? Why should this choice even be given, if it's so crucial to balance? Why don't the designers, at lthe very east, tell players in the PH: "TAKE HASTE IT IS THE MOST POWERFUL SPELL FOR ITS LEVEL IN THE GAME IF YOU DON'T TAKE IT YOU MIGHT BE VASTLY SUBOPTIMAL IT'S YOUR CHOICE OF COURSE IF YOU WANT TO SUCK BUT THERE YOU GO" Yeah, I know a wizard can wear full plate and wield a net in both hands -- it's a player's choice. But really -- they should 'fess up. Player's Handbook should indicate SOMETHING. The Wizard that specializes and can't take haste at all? Or chooses not to? Suck-central for life? If they really wanted to use a spell to balance things, a 3rd level one at that, they should have made it mandatory or "free" - you always get HASTE as a 3rd level spell, as soon as you are allowed to cast 3rd level spells, no matter what. Or else: you suffer major combat suckiness. Not a good plan. Plus all this is hella boring. Jeez. Battle starts. Cast haste. Battle starts. Cast haste. Battle starts. Did I mention -- cast haste? I still think Druids can rock without Animal Friendship, or Clerics without a 3rd level cure spell. Just use more 2nd level ones. Druids -- wildshape more, etc. Basically, the argument that a spell is required by a class to meet up to some standard of "combat readiness" -- just is a cop out on the part of the designers. Or the players. I don't think it's even true. I've seen a lot of effective wizzies that don't require haste; clerics without FlameStrike, etc. They are just not your plain-jane vanilla PC's. That' s good. I won't convince anyone, I'm sure. That's ok too. [/QUOTE]

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