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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Shadow64" data-source="post: 726685" data-attributes="member: 6868">OK - let me kill one arguement right off the bat- it does require a feat to use.  Right in the description I say that it requires the Exotic Firearms Prof(Heavy Machine Gun) to use.  Now, i'd be more then happy to switch it to EFP(M134) since this is a rather unique weapon.  It's no worse or better feat requirement-wise then any other exotic weapon, be it M-60, LAW, Grenade Launcher or even vehicle based Cannons.For the D&D Sword (magical or otherwise) damage vs. "standard" D20 Modern weapon damage; i will agree, the two cannot be compared because of the massive damage save in D20 Modern.  But, then again, we aren't talking about a "standard" D20 Modern weapon here, there is a reason it falls into the "Exotic" weapons line.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Now, you are right, I did make a killer weapon (then again isn't that the intent for most weapons?<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />).   It is fair to compare it to the LAW, or even the RPG-7 in the web enhancment.  They are the only "portable" weapons other then frag grenades that can come close to this damage wise.  Using the "average" damage you should be hitting the MAS save limit for most characters unless they put a good stat into CON with either the LAW, RPG-7 or the frag grenade.With both the LAW and RPG-7 you have similar ranges to the M134, although you only get one shot before you have to reload, which even though they don't mention anything about reloading those style of weapons I can assume that it takes a full-round to reload.  So one shot every 2 rounds, and the person using the LAW or RPG-7 is able to move before or after shooing.  With the M134 you can shoot for 5-10 rounds depending on the belt size, but you can't move.  I will stick to my guns on this and i think that the not being able to move is a big balancing point.  Whether you are using the LAW or M134 once you fire it you are a big time target.  With the LAW you can run.  With the M134 you can't, either you have to wait till the next round to power the thing down to move, or you have to make the str check to move a whole five feet, which with autofire isn't going to help much.Here's is another balancing point between the M134 and the LAW/RPG-7:  You need 1/2 a round to get the barrels spinning, and because it requires a full-round action to use you can't use it the first round.  That gives people a whole round to run/find cover/try to take the minigunner out.  With the LAW/RPG-7 you could move and whip out the LAW/RPG-7 and fire.  Not much warning time.The next type of weapon you could compare the M134 would be the Cannon weapon types.  I won't even try to compare it to the monster 10d12 M1A2 main cannon, that is just silly.  But I will compare it to the BMP-2 30mm and the M2A2 25mm canons.  Damage wise they are a bit higher (4d12) then the M134, they have a higher range (150 ft.) increment and fire on full auto, but don't cover as much area as the M134.  Hmm - yup - the M134 is just a slight bit below these things.  But!  I can tell you why it is balanced against these weapon in just one fell swoop.  Both of the Cannons are mounted in full turrets, which would provide full cover for the user, correct?.  Guess what that means? You'd have to take out the tank to get to them.  The person using the M134 has no armor other then what they can put on their body, and you can still use autofire to get past their armor.  Plus, the tank/troop carrier is still fairly mobile while someone is firing one of the cannons.Size wise I can see why you would place it at Huge.  Here's my logic why:  As a huge weapon it requires a tripod or something else to brace it, which would up the weight requirement and also make it more difficult to move.  You'd have to spend a move-equivalant action to pick it up, use the rest of the round to move, then spend a move-equivalant action to drop it and then make your attack.  Essentially limiting it to one attack every other round if you wanted to be mobile.As it stands right now, however, to be just as mobile with the M134 you'd be firing every three rounds.  One round to turn the weapon "off" and move your allowed speed, another round to turn the weapon back "on" and then since the firing requires a full round action you'd have to wait till next round to fire a shot.  To be honest I think the way the M134 has to be used right now more then makes up for the size difference.Weight-wise I will agree that this does need to weigh more.  I had forgotten about battery weight and other goodies.  Maybe 50 pounds for the weapon and tack another 10 pounds to each belt.  With any other normal equipment that should put all but 16+ Str characters into a little bit of a bind when using this.  Even someone with a higher strength is going to have problems when lugging this beast around.Next:To me common sense would dictate that a man getting out of a vehicle with a large multibarreled weapon pointed at me is not someone to either a) hang around or b) let live.Maybe I am putting to much faith in both DM's and Players when dealing with this weapon.  As a DM you should give the players a warning the first time they see someone with this.  Whether it's shooting a car up or whatever you should let them know that this weapon is something brand new and devastating.  As a player once I see that car go up from being hit I am going to haul ass for cover and *then* start working on the guy from a far.  The same tactics you would use to take someone out toting a LAW or RPG-7 would work just as well, if not better, then with someone toting an M134.  LAW/RPG-7 can move and play hide and seek with you.  M134 can't.As for asking me what game I am playing and then telling me what system to go play if i want "reality" - please don't do that again.  I would not have created or posted this weapon if i thought that it was some uber-munchkin-be-all-end-all of weapons.  At the very worst we can agree to disagree and we can use/modify the weapon as needed to suit our respective games.  I feel that it would fit fine in any game i run, it would be something like a dragon.  Rarely seen and highly feared.  Which, for a weapon like this, is how it should be.  Just as people should't go running through a battlefield quake-style with rocket launchers blazing you shouldn't see hoards of people with this weapon either.As for Urban Arcana, I can't wait to see how they implement this style of weapon.  We'll also be able to see how a D20 Modern style Magic Sword compares to it.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></blockquote>

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