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New Legend and Lore is up! Magic Systems as DM Modules
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6025385" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>FireLance's question is a good one.</p><p></p><p>KM, the first sentence in the quote above is amibguous. Are you saying that, if I build a 4e ranger, then the play experience is very similar whether I label my PC "fighter" or "ranger"? If that is what you are saying, it strike me as obviously true: the play of the PC, in 4e, is a function of mechanical build - and if you want to give your ranger a more "fighter-y" feel you multi-class fighter and then take a fighter-specific PP or ED.</p><p></p><p>But if, in that first sentence, you are saying that a 4e ranger and a 4e fighter, each built according to the rules for its class, provide similar play experiences because they have a common build structure, than I strongly disagree. A fighter is one of the most controller-y of the non-magic-user builds, whereas a PHB ranger is about as non-controller-y as you can get in 4e: the focus is on mobility and almost exclusively upon damage dealing.</p><p></p><p>In classic D&D, for example, a wizard and a cleric use the same structure for spell memorisation and casting, but they deliver pretty different play experiences: so much so that heaps of people liked playing MUs, but not many liked playing clerics.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm with The Shadow here. And, I think, with FireLance. What does it mean to "define a spellcaster by what s/he is in the story", other than to attach a certain flavour text? Hence FireLance's comparison to 4e, and sticking "fighter" at the top of a ranger character sheet.</p><p></p><p>If a wizard's bookishness is more than just flavour text, then it seems that it <em>must</em> place some constraint on how s/he learns spellls: for example, there must be some memorisation component to the wizard. At which point not all of the magic mechanics are purely modular.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't think the casting progression will be there. As Mearls says,</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">The only thing that changes is the table for the wizard’s spell progression.</p><p></p><p>I don't think that a spell point wizard will have to memorise his/her spell point's worth of spells at the start of the day. When people complain about Vancian, they're not normally complaining about the rigidity of slots vs points. They're complaining about the rigidy of memorisation vs spontaneity.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6025385, member: 42582"] FireLance's question is a good one. KM, the first sentence in the quote above is amibguous. Are you saying that, if I build a 4e ranger, then the play experience is very similar whether I label my PC "fighter" or "ranger"? If that is what you are saying, it strike me as obviously true: the play of the PC, in 4e, is a function of mechanical build - and if you want to give your ranger a more "fighter-y" feel you multi-class fighter and then take a fighter-specific PP or ED. But if, in that first sentence, you are saying that a 4e ranger and a 4e fighter, each built according to the rules for its class, provide similar play experiences because they have a common build structure, than I strongly disagree. A fighter is one of the most controller-y of the non-magic-user builds, whereas a PHB ranger is about as non-controller-y as you can get in 4e: the focus is on mobility and almost exclusively upon damage dealing. In classic D&D, for example, a wizard and a cleric use the same structure for spell memorisation and casting, but they deliver pretty different play experiences: so much so that heaps of people liked playing MUs, but not many liked playing clerics. I'm with The Shadow here. And, I think, with FireLance. What does it mean to "define a spellcaster by what s/he is in the story", other than to attach a certain flavour text? Hence FireLance's comparison to 4e, and sticking "fighter" at the top of a ranger character sheet. If a wizard's bookishness is more than just flavour text, then it seems that it [I]must[/I] place some constraint on how s/he learns spellls: for example, there must be some memorisation component to the wizard. At which point not all of the magic mechanics are purely modular. I don't think the casting progression will be there. As Mearls says, [indent]The only thing that changes is the table for the wizard’s spell progression.[/indent] I don't think that a spell point wizard will have to memorise his/her spell point's worth of spells at the start of the day. When people complain about Vancian, they're not normally complaining about the rigidity of slots vs points. They're complaining about the rigidy of memorisation vs spontaneity. [/QUOTE]
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