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<blockquote data-quote="LostSoul" data-source="post: 5656707" data-attributes="member: 386">&quot;Journeyman&quot;:1. One who has fully served an apprenticeship in a trade or craft and is a qualified worker in another's employ.2. An experienced and competent but undistinguished worker.DC 15:??In order to make sense of &quot;DC 15&quot;, I'd have to perform a mechanical analysis of the system.&nbsp; Saying &quot;Journeyman&quot; actually means something that's easily accessible, whereas calculating what &quot;DC 15&quot; means in the context of the game is not.&nbsp; (Which is where 4E's DCs by skill level tables come in handy.)It's only auto-failure if the players can't think of anything to do that will improve their ability to succeed.Now, when you say &quot;barring heavy DM intervention&quot;:If you don't want to make judgement calls, this is going to be a bad system.&nbsp; However, this system - if the challenges are auto-failures - is going to engage players who want their characters to succeed.&nbsp; They are going to have to empower themselves to make decisions for their characters that turn auto-failures into auto-successes.&nbsp; You're given authority to judge the player's decisions for their PCs.&nbsp; If this responsibility is something you don't want, the skill system isn't going to work.In a similar fashion, if the players are the type who fear failure and won't engage because the game challenges their skill, this won't work for them.&nbsp; But if they are willing to &quot;step on up&quot; to the challenge - it's going to empower them and bring them into the game.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="LostSoul, post: 5656707, member: 386"] "Journeyman": 1. One who has fully served an apprenticeship in a trade or craft and is a qualified worker in another's employ. 2. An experienced and competent but undistinguished worker. DC 15: ?? In order to make sense of "DC 15", I'd have to perform a mechanical analysis of the system. Saying "Journeyman" actually means something that's easily accessible, whereas calculating what "DC 15" means in the context of the game is not. (Which is where 4E's DCs by skill level tables come in handy.) It's only auto-failure if the [i]players[/i] can't think of anything to do that will improve their ability to succeed. Now, when you say "barring heavy DM intervention": If you don't want to make judgement calls, this is going to be a bad system. However, this system - if the challenges are [i]auto-failures[/i] - is going to engage players who want their characters to succeed. They are going to have to empower themselves to make decisions for their characters that turn auto-failures into auto-successes. You're given authority to judge the player's decisions for their PCs. If this responsibility is something you don't want, the skill system isn't going to work. In a similar fashion, if the players are the type who fear failure and won't engage because the game challenges their skill, this won't work for them. But if they are willing to "step on up" to the challenge - it's going to empower them and bring them into the game. [/QUOTE]

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