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Message: <blockquote data-quote="the Jester" data-source="post: 6169327" data-attributes="member: 1210">Hold on, there, Tex! 5e isn't being made as a completely new game to try completely new stuff and not retread what D&D has done before. Just the opposite, in fact. Any proposal for a major section of the rules that starts with "Let's not enable 3e players to recreate their favorite pcs" is a nonstarter right off the bat.Do you have any evidence for this? I've never seen even an attempt to quantify this, but I think you're wrong, and I also think the distinction between "roleplayer camp" and "powergamer camp" is much softer than you paint it. Almost all players are a mix of the two.Remember the part of the design where they are making feats completely optional? That makes this another nonstarter.This is so not the path that I want to see D&D take. A bloated class list is a patch that's not needed for a feature (multiclassing) that players have loved and enjoyed since 1e and maybe even before. There is no reason to replace multiclassing with MOAR CLASSES- we'll have enough of those eventually anyhow, and I don't see how that improves anything.You seem to be operating under the assumption that, for instance, a fighter 2/ranger 2/rogue 3/monk 2/bard 1 is somehow bad, that there is something wrong with making a pc with that number of classes and combinations. But you haven't really said why it's bad, especially not in a convincing enough way to persuade the players who like to tinker with pc builds like that. What's wrong with them? If you don't like pcs with 4 or 5 or 6 classes, is it so hard to house rule it that you want to force your preference on the entire gaming community? The "not an archetype" argument doesn't hold water here- how does letting someone play the pc they want ruin everyone's fun?So what do you do for a barbarian/druid? If your answer is "ban them", that's yet another nonstarter. 5e needs to help enable many playstyles, not restrict other people to yours or mine. As you can see, it doesn't satisfy everyone's needs (heck, you started off by discarding the needs of the powergamers!). And while you didn't like the way multiclassing worked in 3e, the vast majority of gamers that I've played with love it. So let's go ahead and repeat that choice.So "Screw you, go play another game" is your solution to this one?Inclusion, man, inclusion. That's the whole point of 5e.</blockquote>

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