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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 6169491" data-attributes="member: 6668292">First, let me start with this:I don't want to say "deal breaker", but this is just about as close as I can get. This is just terrible, in my book. To the current discussion:You know what's interesting (to me, at least)? My RPG is point-buy. But, for my latest campaign, I made 10 classes, and had my players use them. This has given me some insight into point-buy vs. classes, recently.First, let me say that my players used the classes at low levels (level 2-10), and then built high level characters (level 15, same campaign world), and they never broke the system. I'll also note again that there were only 10 classes, but some were pretty robust, and I don't think having 10 or 50 classes would've made a difference.Why? Well, because everything they could do was even more constrained than normal for my RPG. No matter what combination they came up with when combining classes, they could do even more in my normal RPG (since it's point-buy), and I had done all the initial balancing with the point-buy model in mind. So, there was no combination of Fighter / Wizard (as an example, since I didn't have "Fighter" or "Wizard") that became too powerful, since you could just build a fighting guy with wizardry stuff in the normal point-buy game and not break stuff.Also, my multi-classing rules were extremely relaxed. You could take any level of a class you dipped into, up to your character level. So, if you're a level 9 Fighter that is going up to level 10, and you dip Wizard, you could take 1 level of Wizard from level 1 to 10, your choice. I did put a restriction on that, though, that you had to meet the prerequisites within the class. Spells I (1st level spells) was necessary before Spells II (2nd level spells), etc. So, he'd likely become Fighter 9 / Wizard 1 (with Spells I), and then next level Fighter 9 / Wizard 2 (and pick up Wizard level 3 for Spells II), etc.I don't propose this system because I think it might be a bit complex for many D&D players (though certainly not my group), but the class experiment did show me something interesting: if you build things with a point-buy basis, it'll protect your classes when multi-classing comes up. I don't have to worry about people mixing "iconic class abilities" and getting some unholy combination; I already ironed those bits out when anybody could buy anything with points.Right now, I think that approaching classes from the standpoint of "this is iconic to this class, so we look at it at a lens of only with this class" is fairly toxic to designing for 3.X-style multi-classing. You get things like "a Monk needs to fight unarmored, so we'll give him that at level 1, so he doesn't get destroyed in combat" being mixed with Clerics or Druids and their high Wisdom, just because it works well and is a nice dip (especially if you trade armor proficiencies away for other benefits, via alternate class features, subclasses, or whatever).I think that if they're set on 3.X-style multi-classing (which I prefer), then they should stop making so many exceptions with the classes. More unified rules structure, more abilities designed with every class in mind, etc. Heck, I'd support there being the three core books, and a fourth book revealing all the math they use (the point-buy behind the curtain) so that DMs and players can make their own classes, races, etc. without breaking the game.Based on recent experience, I just feel that a point-buy base makes for a much stronger game, and it in no way prevents strong, themed classes (like my Bloodletter, Blacksoul, Hand of Dawn, Order of the Obsidian Flame, Magician of Nyt, etc. classes). It just makes it so that, once the point-buy kinks are worked out, the game doesn't break when you allow even very loose multi-classing. They seem to be approaching things from a "math later" angle (which I think is a mistake), and they certainly won't swap to a point-buy basis this late, but I think that it makes for a much stronger foundation upon which to build 3.X-style multi-classing (which I'd like to see in the game).Here's hoping that they work it out, because I quite like my Wiz 3/Pal 3/Rog 4/Ran 2/Ftr 3 characters in the game, occasionally. About just as much as Mnk 15 or Bar 15, really. Both are about as boring or as interesting as you make them, and both can have good reasons or bad reasons or no reasons for being what they are, mechanically. Anyway, just my thoughts on it. As always, play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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