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<blockquote data-quote="ExploderWizard" data-source="post: 5669817" data-attributes="member: 66434">Extensive use of die rolls have caused players to become primarily engaged with the rules rather than the environment or situations. &nbsp;Why listen to a description of anything if you can just make a good enough roll ? Just play angry birds until the descriptive snooze fest is over and you get to roll some dice. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/ponder.png"&nbsp; class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":hmm:" title="Hmmm&nbsp; &nbsp; :hmm:" data-shortname=":hmm:" />&nbsp;Wouldn't this speed up play even more:&nbsp;DM:&quot; Hallway 30' from this room leading North. Perception checks.&quot;&nbsp;Player 1: &quot; best check was a 24&quot;&nbsp;DM: &quot; You don't notice anything strange. Door at the end of the hall.&quot;&nbsp;Player 2: &quot; I look for traps (rolls perception) 26!!&quot; &nbsp;DM: &quot; you don't see any traps&quot;&nbsp;Player2: &quot; I listen (rolls perception) 9 &quot;. &nbsp;Player1: (not metagaming at all <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/angel.png"&nbsp; class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":angel:" title="Angel&nbsp; &nbsp; :angel:" data-shortname=":angel:" />) &quot; I'll take a listen too (rolls) 23!!&quot; &nbsp;Me: .................................<img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/yawn.png"&nbsp; class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":yawn:" title="Yawn&nbsp; &nbsp; :yawn:" data-shortname=":yawn:" />&nbsp;&nbsp;Once the imagined gamespace has only a tertiary effect at best on the outcome of play it starts to become ignored. &nbsp;Back in the day that listen check was made by the DM in secret. Was there not any noise or did the check get failed? Additional listeners might help but with no more certainty of thier actions. Taking all that time standing around in the hall with ears pressed to a door had consequences too. The environment was important. &nbsp;Less rules on the players side of things also made things friendlier for new players. A new person could show up, generate a character in minutes and join in as a valuable contributing member of the party. By engaging the environment and describing intentions and actions in plain english (or whatever the spoken language was) the new player could settle in quickly. &nbsp;Modern versions of the game require much more from players to reach that valuable contributing member level. Learning to engage in the game via the heavier ruleset can be time consuming.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ExploderWizard, post: 5669817, member: 66434"] Extensive use of die rolls have caused players to become primarily engaged with the rules rather than the environment or situations. Why listen to a description of anything if you can just make a good enough roll ? Just play angry birds until the descriptive snooze fest is over and you get to roll some dice. :hmm: Wouldn't this speed up play even more: DM:" Hallway 30' from this room leading North. Perception checks." Player 1: " best check was a 24" DM: " You don't notice anything strange. Door at the end of the hall." Player 2: " I look for traps (rolls perception) 26!!" DM: " you don't see any traps" Player2: " I listen (rolls perception) 9 ". Player1: (not metagaming at all :angel:) " I'll take a listen too (rolls) 23!!" Me: .................................:yawn: Once the imagined gamespace has only a tertiary effect at best on the outcome of play it starts to become ignored. Back in the day that listen check was made by the DM in secret. Was there not any noise or did the check get failed? Additional listeners might help but with no more certainty of thier actions. Taking all that time standing around in the hall with ears pressed to a door had consequences too. The environment was important. Less rules on the players side of things also made things friendlier for new players. A new person could show up, generate a character in minutes and join in as a valuable contributing member of the party. By engaging the environment and describing intentions and actions in plain english (or whatever the spoken language was) the new player could settle in quickly. Modern versions of the game require much more from players to reach that valuable contributing member level. Learning to engage in the game via the heavier ruleset can be time consuming. [/QUOTE]

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