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New Legends & Lore: Player vs. Character
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<blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5670131" data-attributes="member: 54877"><p>As General Eisenhower said, when the problem has no solution, enlarge the problem (space).</p><p> </p><p>As stated within just the parameters of the two options, the problem has no solution. For any given aspect (combat, diplomacy, etc.), the problem will boil down to four choices. Consider diplomacy:</p><p> </p><p>1. Eloquent player means everything. </p><p>2. Roll means everything.</p><p>3. Eloquence And Roll (combined) means everything.</p><p>4. Eloquence Or Roll (someone picks) means everything.</p><p> </p><p>Sure, you get some differences depending upon which one you pick--in some cases, some very sharp differences. Put any one pick will have unsatisfactory results for many players, if based on nothing but those two methods.</p><p> </p><p>It is a testament to social contract and the general adaptibility of humanity that all of these have been made to work, and sometimes well--but when they have, it is because people have enlarged the problem space. They put socially acceptable brakes on the eloquent players that kept things reasonable. Or they only played with people that could cope with the eloquence. They used #3, but the DM and players used a bit of sleight of hand so that the balance swung a bit and kept people guessing (a very slick and subtle kind of fiat). They used #4 when non-eloquent player A was ok that spending points on talking let him get results similar to player B who simply talked. They went with the roll being determinant, but then made the narration of the result matter some other way besides success.</p><p> </p><p>You'll note that all of these solutions provided something else in the equation. So the trick here is arriving at one or more other things that can interact with this framework, that can be easily communicated to people in the game rules and/or advice. Or I guess, emergent in some other aspect of the design. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Crazy Jerome, post: 5670131, member: 54877"] As General Eisenhower said, when the problem has no solution, enlarge the problem (space). As stated within just the parameters of the two options, the problem has no solution. For any given aspect (combat, diplomacy, etc.), the problem will boil down to four choices. Consider diplomacy: 1. Eloquent player means everything. 2. Roll means everything. 3. Eloquence And Roll (combined) means everything. 4. Eloquence Or Roll (someone picks) means everything. Sure, you get some differences depending upon which one you pick--in some cases, some very sharp differences. Put any one pick will have unsatisfactory results for many players, if based on nothing but those two methods. It is a testament to social contract and the general adaptibility of humanity that all of these have been made to work, and sometimes well--but when they have, it is because people have enlarged the problem space. They put socially acceptable brakes on the eloquent players that kept things reasonable. Or they only played with people that could cope with the eloquence. They used #3, but the DM and players used a bit of sleight of hand so that the balance swung a bit and kept people guessing (a very slick and subtle kind of fiat). They used #4 when non-eloquent player A was ok that spending points on talking let him get results similar to player B who simply talked. They went with the roll being determinant, but then made the narration of the result matter some other way besides success. You'll note that all of these solutions provided something else in the equation. So the trick here is arriving at one or more other things that can interact with this framework, that can be easily communicated to people in the game rules and/or advice. Or I guess, emergent in some other aspect of the design. :D [/QUOTE]
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