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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Salamandyr" data-source="post: 5717662" data-attributes="member: 40233">Uh no, walls and sheer surfaces were considered pretty synonymous, ie things without real hand and footholds.  A fighter couldn't climb a wall.  He could climb a hill, he could climb a tree, he could shimmy up a rope to get up a wall.  What he couldn't do was climb a wall or other sheer surface lacking real hand and footholds while possessing no climbing equipment.  Essentially, any surface the DM rules the fighter can climb, by RAW, the thief can climb automatically with no roll.  The thiefs climb check (which started at 85% at 1st level) was only necessary when climbing a surface that other classes had no chance to climb at all.As originally written, ability checks did not exist in AD&D.  It did in Basic/Expert.  Some modules did introduce ability checks for AD&D, but they were not part of core books unless they showed up in the Survival Guides, which I haven't looked at since they were new.EDIT: the text of the "Climb Walls" ability for the thief and the climbing rule for non thieves below, the climbing rule is pasted from the Mentzer Expert set, and the thief section from the Rules Compendium (what I have available to me is kind of messed up, so making do).  The RC has, instead of the climbing rule below, a skill called "mountaineering", and please note the Mentzer rule for climbing differs somewhat from my recollection of the Moldvay/Cook rule.  The Isle of Dread has a different climbing rule for when players try to climb a mountain, but again, the thief's success is considered automatic, since the surfaces in question are not considered "sheer".Climb Walls (CW): With successful use of thisspecial ability, the thief can climb steep surfaces, such as sheer cliffs, walls, and so forth. The chances for success are good, but if failed, the thief slips at the halfway point and falls. The DM rolls for success once for every 100' climbed. If the roll is a failure, the thief takes 1-6 (1d6) points of damage per 10' fallen. Falling during a 10' climb will inflict 1 point of damage.Climbing: Thieves (and only thieves) have the special ability to climb sheer surfaces. But many situations can arise where some easier form of climbing is desired - up a tree, steep hill, wall with handholds, etc. Generally, any characters in metal armor will not be able to climb well. Characters in leather or no armor should be able to climb easily, with only a slight chance of falling. In situations where “normal” climbing might be attempted, first decide on a base chance of success. For example, if characters seek to spend a night in a tree with many overhanging branches, there might be an18 in 20 chance of successful climbing by unarmored characters. Modify that chance for those in chain mail armor (perhaps to 11 in 20) to those in plate mail armor. You may wish to use a character’s Dexterity or Strength scores to find the chance of falling; success might be indicated by rollingan ability score or less, using ld20, 3d6, 4d6, or some other means.  Whatever chances you decide to use, make a note of them so they may be applied equally and fairly in future games. Remember that a falling character takes 1-6 points of damage for each 10’ fallen.  But it should be very unlikely for an adventurer, however weak, to be killed by falling out of a tree.</blockquote>

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