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<blockquote data-quote="Alaxk Knight of Galt" data-source="post: 5489490" data-attributes="member: 4129"><p>The chart Mearls provides is horribly flawed for level of complication. </p><p></p><p>Fill in / Calculate are not steps in character creation. They are steps in game management. Suggesting that filling in saving throws or calculating Thac0/BAB add to the total steps in character creation is silly.</p><p></p><p>So, lets strip out those and present the chart again, looking at unique choices. </p><p></p><p><span style="color: darkorange">1st Edition - 1 Unique Choice</span></p><p>• Weapon Proficiencies: 4</p><p></p><p><span style="color: darkorange">2nd Edition - 3 Unique Choices</span></p><p>• Weapon Proficiencies: 4 </p><p>• Weapon Specialization*: pick 1 at the cost of 2</p><p>• Non-Weapon Proficiencies: 3</p><p></p><p><span style="color: darkorange">3rd Edition - 2 Unique Choices</span></p><p>• Feats: 2 </p><p>• Skill Ranks: 8 </p><p></p><p><span style="color: DarkOrange">4th Edition - 8 Unique Choices</span></p><p>• Feat: 1 </p><p>• At-Will Powers: 2 </p><p>• Encounter Power: 1 </p><p>• Daily Power: 1 </p><p>• Background: 1 </p><p>• Skills: 3 </p><p>• <em>Fighter Talent**:</em> 1</p><p>• <em>Theme:</em> 1</p><p></p><p>*Calling weapon specialization a choice is a bit of a stretch. For my buck, it's part of the weapon proficiency selection.</p><p>**I don't know why the fighter's talents are not mentioned. This selection is very important to the style of fighter you play </p><p></p><p></p><p>Just for fun, I'll list the current number of options for each 4th Edition choice (as suggested by the compendium)</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Number of Feats (Fighter or Martial Heroic only) - 187 </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Number of At-Will Powers - 17</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Number of 1st Level Encounter Powers - 18</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Number of 1st Level Daily Powers - 17</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Number of Backgrounds - ??</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Number of Skills - 5 (or 6 depending on the background) to pick from</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Number of Build Options - 6 (Arena, Battlerage Vigor, Brawler, One-Handed, Tempest, Two-Handed)</li> </ul><p></p><p>That is 250 items to select from (without picking any backgrounds or darksun themes).</p><p></p><p>3rd Edition had it's problems as well. Feat selection rapidly gets out of hand when the DM says "all WotC products allowed." Picking two feats might require examining 200+ feats.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Absolutely!</p><p> </p><p>In 1st Edition, the system asks the Fighter what weapons do you fight with. </p><p></p><p>In 4th Edition, the system asks the Fighter what weapons do you fight with and how do you fight.</p><p></p><p>The "how" is very complicated. How much do we gain from knowing how the fighter fights anyway?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Alaxk Knight of Galt, post: 5489490, member: 4129"] The chart Mearls provides is horribly flawed for level of complication. Fill in / Calculate are not steps in character creation. They are steps in game management. Suggesting that filling in saving throws or calculating Thac0/BAB add to the total steps in character creation is silly. So, lets strip out those and present the chart again, looking at unique choices. [COLOR="darkorange"]1st Edition - 1 Unique Choice[/COLOR] • Weapon Proficiencies: 4 [COLOR="darkorange"]2nd Edition - 3 Unique Choices[/COLOR] • Weapon Proficiencies: 4 • Weapon Specialization*: pick 1 at the cost of 2 • Non-Weapon Proficiencies: 3 [COLOR="darkorange"]3rd Edition - 2 Unique Choices[/COLOR] • Feats: 2 • Skill Ranks: 8 [COLOR="DarkOrange"]4th Edition - 8 Unique Choices[/COLOR] • Feat: 1 • At-Will Powers: 2 • Encounter Power: 1 • Daily Power: 1 • Background: 1 • Skills: 3 • [I]Fighter Talent**:[/I] 1 • [I]Theme:[/I] 1 *Calling weapon specialization a choice is a bit of a stretch. For my buck, it's part of the weapon proficiency selection. **I don't know why the fighter's talents are not mentioned. This selection is very important to the style of fighter you play Just for fun, I'll list the current number of options for each 4th Edition choice (as suggested by the compendium) [LIST] [*]Number of Feats (Fighter or Martial Heroic only) - 187 [*]Number of At-Will Powers - 17 [*]Number of 1st Level Encounter Powers - 18 [*]Number of 1st Level Daily Powers - 17 [*]Number of Backgrounds - ?? [*]Number of Skills - 5 (or 6 depending on the background) to pick from [*]Number of Build Options - 6 (Arena, Battlerage Vigor, Brawler, One-Handed, Tempest, Two-Handed) [/LIST] That is 250 items to select from (without picking any backgrounds or darksun themes). 3rd Edition had it's problems as well. Feat selection rapidly gets out of hand when the DM says "all WotC products allowed." Picking two feats might require examining 200+ feats. Absolutely! In 1st Edition, the system asks the Fighter what weapons do you fight with. In 4th Edition, the system asks the Fighter what weapons do you fight with and how do you fight. The "how" is very complicated. How much do we gain from knowing how the fighter fights anyway? [/QUOTE]
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