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Message: <blockquote data-quote="kaomera" data-source="post: 5493977" data-attributes="member: 38357">I disagree. I don't find that PTA (the one game among those you mentioned that I've any experience with) offers much if anything in terms of tactical play. It's like saying that if I don't want to eat the entire pie, just a slice, then I should eat cake instead.One of the reason that 4e appeals to me is that it's taken the tactical aspects of play and made them fun, where I found them to become more of a chore in some other systems I've played. That doesn't mean that I want the entire game to be nothing but pushing miniatures around the board and fiddling with rules minutiae. There's a middle ground, and IMO it can preserve what I find good about the 4e system.I find it interesting that I've had a number of more story-games focused players suggest that (and I'd add "for them", although some of them make more generalized statements) 4e is only good for playing out a very advanced form of Descent or a similar dungeon-crawling boardgame. I disagree, and in fact playing it that way ignores the whole reason I come to the table and/or am willing to spend time and effort on the game.</blockquote>